mossrider Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 So it's days like this at the track that prompt dangerous levels of thought, I've been chasing a problem with parasitic drag in the front brakes when it's raced hard and the brakes get very hot. It's not terminal levels of drag but it is noticeable as the system gets super hot. I've swapped calipers, changed pads, fluid, master cylinder, checked runout, tried different discs etc, all w/o effect. So it dawns on me to try replacing the semi-floater buttons with full-floater buttons. The logic is that when the system heats and the brakes are released and the pistons are allowed to retract due to seal resilience that the disc itself is following one pad because of spring pressure from the stock riveted buttons that utilize a wave style spacer spring under the button head. We're only talking a couple tenthousandths but? Replacing them with flat shim style buttons should theoretically let the disc remain centered between the pads and not brush against one of the pads causing the drag? Here I've removed one of the stock buttons for measurement and I think I've located proper sized clip style substitutues. What could possibly go wrong? Got some of these ordered up, Sure I could just order some uprated discs but where's the challenge? I refuse to abandon the stock forks front end and want to find a way to stay with the stock rotors as well, not to mention it's a lot cheaper to upgrade the stockers. Did have a great day last weekend playing on the refreshed shock, bedding in some new pads and D.I.D. chain and burning up some more take-offs... Will try out the new brakes at next race in 2 weeks. Then it's off to Pittsburgh for the next motoamerica round. Hopefully I can find a couple more mph for Tony. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossrider Posted July 2, 2019 Author Share Posted July 2, 2019 Speaking of heat, here's a couple shots for comparison; Old pads Next to replacements, That's got to take a tremendous amount of heat to discolor them like this. I'll have to try and get some readings with my laser temp gauge trackside. I'm no conspiracist but there they are overhead, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member norcal616 Posted July 2, 2019 Premium Member Share Posted July 2, 2019 Wheel bearings worn out??? 1 2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossrider Posted July 2, 2019 Author Share Posted July 2, 2019 Just now, norcal616 said: Wheel bearings worn out??? No, I have 4 sets of wheels w/discs (all with new bearings) and it's the same no matter what wheel is in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member norcal616 Posted July 2, 2019 Premium Member Share Posted July 2, 2019 Only things I can think of is going to a solid rotors or it's the lateral flex of the forks/wheel - might have to remove front fender and run a support brace between em... 1 2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossrider Posted July 2, 2019 Author Share Posted July 2, 2019 Just now, norcal616 said: Only things I can think of is going to a solid rotors or it's the lateral flex of the forks/wheel - might have to remove front fender and run a support brace between em... I should have some good data and feedback after next race in a couple of weeks to see if this fix works. Flex, hmm, interesting, food for thought. We'll see where we end up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FZark07 Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 11 hours ago, mossrider said: So it's days like this at the track that prompt dangerous levels of thought, I've been chasing a problem with parasitic drag in the front brakes when it's raced hard and the brakes get very hot. It's not terminal levels of drag but it is noticeable as the system gets super hot. I've swapped calipers, changed pads, fluid, master cylinder, checked runout, tried different discs etc, all w/o effect. So it dawns on me to try replacing the semi-floater buttons with full-floater buttons. The logic is that when the system heats and the brakes are released and the pistons are allowed to retract due to seal resilience that the disc itself is following one pad because of spring pressure from the stock riveted buttons that utilize a wave style spacer spring under the button head. We're only talking a couple tenthousandths but? Replacing them with flat shim style buttons should theoretically let the disc remain centered between the pads and not brush against one of the pads causing the drag? Here I've removed one of the stock buttons for measurement and I think I've located proper sized clip style substitutues. What could possibly go wrong? Got some of these ordered up, Sure I could just order some uprated discs but where's the challenge? I refuse to abandon the stock forks front end and want to find a way to stay with the stock rotors as well, not to mention it's a lot cheaper to upgrade the stockers. Did have a great day last weekend playing on the refreshed shock, bedding in some new pads and D.I.D. chain and burning up some more take-offs... Will try out the new brakes at next race in 2 weeks. Then it's off to Pittsburgh for the next motoamerica round. Hopefully I can find a couple more mph for Tony. The small air-bleed hole in the master cylinder plugged or partially plugged? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossrider Posted July 3, 2019 Author Share Posted July 3, 2019 Just now, FZark07 said: The small air-bleed hole in the master cylinder plugged or partially plugged? I don't think so, I've flushed it, upgraded the fluid and tried a spare master. Understand that the para drag isn't that bad and only appears when extremely hot so I'm only trying the full floater option as a last-little-bit effort to squeeze the nth degree performance out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member norcal616 Posted July 3, 2019 Premium Member Share Posted July 3, 2019 I found an old thread on fork brace but it was short lived... I agree one might not notice just out doing normal street riding but will notice under race conditions( probably more so if ones bike has a modified geometry?)... Edit: makes for a nice Go-Pro mount location 1 2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemer Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 21 hours ago, mossrider said: Speaking of heat, here's a couple shots for comparison; Old pads Next to replacements, That's got to take a tremendous amount of heat to discolor them like this. I'll have to try and get some readings with my laser temp gauge trackside. I'm no conspiracist but there they are overhead, You really use all the pad! lol! About those choppers, years ago you would've been consider a cuck for reporting unmarked, black helicopters. Anti-Terrorism Military Drills Take Parts of Texas by Surprise - The New York Times Unannounced US Army counterterrorism drills over Kingsville and Port Aransas, Tex, startle residents (S) Beemer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossrider Posted July 3, 2019 Author Share Posted July 3, 2019 Just now, Beemer said: You really use all the pad! lol! About those choppers, years ago you would've been consider a cuck for reporting unmarked, black helicopters. Anti-Terrorism Military Drills Take Parts of Texas by Surprise - The New York Times Unannounced US Army counterterrorism drills over Kingsville and Port Aransas, Tex, startle residents (S) There was a huge concert at the track this weekend and the choppers were part of the festivities from nearby Ft Ripley. They were farting around all weekend, sometimes at treetop level, guys hanging out waving and having a good ole time. I was kind of worried a couple of times as the drunks with their drones thought it was great fun to chase the Blackhawks, like something good would happen from a midair collision over thousands of people. It kept security busy, lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member bornagainbiker Posted July 3, 2019 Premium Member Share Posted July 3, 2019 30 minutes ago, mossrider said: I was kind of worried a couple of times as the drunks with their drones thought it was great fun to chase the Blackhawks, like something good would happen from a midair collision over thousands of people. A-Holes. 1 Give Respect To Get Respect https://jeff-galbraith.pixels.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossrider Posted July 9, 2019 Author Share Posted July 9, 2019 Well it took some experimentation with shim thickness but I seem to have a working set of full floating front brake discs. Now for track testing and some data collection. Should be interesting. They clearly allow more movement between the carrier and the disc than the stock ones do. They actually rattle/make noise when handled. Accepting applications for a test rider, submit beersume'. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member bornagainbiker Posted July 9, 2019 Premium Member Share Posted July 9, 2019 I'm not much of a rider, but I sure do like me a beer now and again. 1 Give Respect To Get Respect https://jeff-galbraith.pixels.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossrider Posted July 16, 2019 Author Share Posted July 16, 2019 On 7/9/2019 at 8:00 PM, bornagainbiker said: I'm not much of a rider, but I sure do like me a beer now and again. This struck me as hilarious. This is succinctly my race program, and again, and again, and...lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrasherg Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 when I used to race in England, we where known as Piston Broke racing, which was a polite way of saying pissed and broke (meaning drunk and no money) racing!! We liked a beer or three after the races!! Gary 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member bornagainbiker Posted July 16, 2019 Premium Member Share Posted July 16, 2019 7 hours ago, mossrider said: This struck me as hilarious. This is succinctly my race program, and again, and again, and...lol. Well, you did say to submit beersume. Give Respect To Get Respect https://jeff-galbraith.pixels.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossrider Posted July 18, 2019 Author Share Posted July 18, 2019 This mornings pearl, So I'm loading out for the track, in the rain, again, as usual, Forcast for a couple-three more wet days. Have brake tests and setup for Pittsburg round of MotoAmerica to get after. I'm starting to think @blackout is scheduling my weather, lol. See you at the track! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrasherg Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 best of luck.. Hope you get a good result. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member blackout Posted July 18, 2019 Premium Member Share Posted July 18, 2019 7 hours ago, mossrider said: This mornings pearl, So I'm loading out for the track, in the rain, again, as usual, Forcast for a couple-three more wet days. Have brake tests and setup for Pittsburg round of MotoAmerica to get after. I'm starting to think @blackout is scheduling my weather, lol. See you at the track! Lol. I need to get back to the track. Only two trackdays so far. I'm deep in the divorce now, and it's not looking pretty.... I almost signed up for next weekend, but too much crap to deal with now. Hoping for some rainy fall trackdays. Craig Mapstone Upstate New York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member blackout Posted July 18, 2019 Premium Member Share Posted July 18, 2019 My oldest son 3d printed this stack for me for a possible winter project. Its printed from a flexible polymer, can't remember what it's called. Craig Mapstone Upstate New York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossrider Posted July 19, 2019 Author Share Posted July 19, 2019 4 hours ago, blackout said: My oldest son 3d printed this stack for me for a possible winter project. Its printed from a flexible polymer, can't remember what it's called. You got helpful kids? Must be some kind of anomoly. My wife kept letting mine outta the gunny sack on the riverbank. I see we have work to do this winter, scratches chin.... And God speed with the divorce crap. Hope that's goes quickly for all y'all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossrider Posted July 20, 2019 Author Share Posted July 20, 2019 On 7/9/2019 at 1:13 PM, mossrider said: This just in; New full floating rotors virtually eliminate parasitic drag & lower rotor temps 50-100°F*. Not perfect but getting there. Win win. * Tough to get accurate-repeatable comparison temps due to track traffic and length of pit lane. Trying. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Global Moderator sorkyah Posted July 20, 2019 Global Moderator Share Posted July 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, mossrider said: This just in; New full floating rotors virtually eliminate parasitic drag & lower rotor temps 50-100°F*. Not perfect but getting there. Win win. * Tough to get accurate-repeatable comparison temps due to track traffic and length of pit lane. Trying. Gonna do a write-up on making this? 1 ATGATT... ATTATT, two acronyms I live by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossrider Posted July 21, 2019 Author Share Posted July 21, 2019 When I get back from the track later in the week I'll put a how to up for a rotor upgrade. We did a 3 hour endurance race today. Finished 4th in class (9) and 13th overall of 23 teams. I'll take that. We ran out of gas 100 yards from the finish line at the checkered flag and coasted across dead in the water, lol. Just like we planned it Our team, that's me, Tony and Nate, each on our own bikes. We led or were in second for first half of the race before a red flag and restart. Then started to falter a bit. Oh well, had a blast. More racing tommorow and a track day Monday, woot! 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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