FZ07 2015: Suddenly dies/uneven on low RPM

[GROTAL]

First of all sorry, English is not my first language.

In January 2019 I bought a bike, a 2015 Yamaha MT07/FZ07 with about 12000km/7500miles on it. Rode it home (1h) with no problems. When bought, it was equipped with a PowerCommander 5 (stock map) and a MIVV full exhaust. I did not ride it more for 4 months. 

During the winter I changed the oil. Installed a DNA Air Filter and remapped it with the most fitting map on powercommanders webpage (Akra exhaust + DNA air filter).

When I started riding this spring, I noticed it would run uneven on low RPM/low speeds, for example when filtering. A quick flick on the throttle would solve the problem and the bike would run smoothly again. I noticed the bike was a bit over-filled with oil and emptied 2-3dl out, it is not exactly between MAX and MIN.

During the summer things have gotten worse. When I ride with a steady throttle the bike (without warning) sometimes goes "bbuuuouuueehh" and a total loss of power. When I twist the throttle a bit the engine revs up and everything is back to normal. Two-three times the bike died when riding and I had to press the starter motor to regain power. These problems never starts within the first 30 min of riding and seems to come in clusters. 

- I have tried remapping it with two different maps.

- The bike starts quickly with no problem. Steady idle.

- I notice a ticking sound (valves) sometimes, usually after at least 30-45 mins of riding. It is not noticeable on idle. Could bad valve timing cause problems like this?

- No check engine light ever, no error codes on display.

I have tried to provoke the problem, with no success. So far I have no idea exactly what triggers these symptoms.

Where should I start?

[cornerslider]

44 minutes ago, GROTAL said:

First of all sorry, English is not my first language.

In January 2019 I bought a bike, a 2015 Yamaha MT07/FZ07 with about 12000km/7500miles on it. Rode it home (1h) with no problems. When bought, it was equipped with a PowerCommander 5 (stock map) and a MIVV full exhaust. I did not ride it more for 4 months. 

During the winter I changed the oil. Installed a DNA Air Filter and remapped it with the most fitting map on powercommanders webpage (Akra exhaust + DNA air filter).

When I started riding this spring, I noticed it would run uneven on low RPM/low speeds, for example when filtering. A quick flick on the throttle would solve the problem and the bike would run smoothly again. I noticed the bike was a bit over-filled with oil and emptied 2-3dl out, it is not exactly between MAX and MIN.

During the summer things have gotten worse. When I ride with a steady throttle the bike (without warning) sometimes goes "bbuuuouuueehh" and a total loss of power. When I twist the throttle a bit the engine revs up and everything is back to normal. Two-three times the bike died when riding and I had to press the starter motor to regain power. These problems never starts within the first 30 min of riding and seems to come in clusters. 

- I have tried remapping it with two different maps.

- The bike starts quickly with no problem. Steady idle.

- I notice a ticking sound (valves) sometimes, usually after at least 30-45 mins of riding. It is not noticeable on idle. Could bad valve timing cause problems like this?

- No check engine light ever, no error codes on display.

I have tried to provoke the problem, with no success. So far I have no idea exactly what triggers these symptoms.

Where should I start?

I know it's a long shot.... But, does the bike have the "autotune" kit on the PCV? If so, unless you weld in a second exhaust bung for the "wide band" O2 sensor, it won't work properly. The installation instructions aren't very good with the auto-tune kit. You need to run the OEM O2 sensor (narrow-band), AND the auto-tune "wide-band" sensor. I learned this lesson the hard way.... I experienced nearly the same thing you described.

Here is why: The wide-band sensor only reads above 5,000 rpm. If you un-plug the OEM "narrow-band" sensor, and only use the "wide-band" sensor, the ECU thinks there is a problem with the motor, and starts dumping extra fuel into the motor as a "safe-mode". At highway speeds, the MT-07 is just below 5,000 RPM. That MAY be why it corrects when you roll on the gas when it's happening- you are above the 5,000 RPM mark, and the autotune sensor kicks in and quickly corrects the A/F mixture. I removed the autotune kit, and it fixed all my issues. (I didn't want to weld a second O2 bung into my new Akra Ti exhaust) 

The valves are always a bit "noisy" on the MT-07, and are very doubtfully the problem with only 7,500 miles. Hope that helps. Good luck-

 

 

[GROTAL]

19 hours ago, cornerslider said:

I know it's a long shot.... But, does the bike have the "autotune" kit on the PCV? If so, unless you weld in a second exhaust bung for the "wide band" O2 sensor, it won't work properly. The installation instructions aren't very good with the auto-tune kit. You need to run the OEM O2 sensor (narrow-band), AND the auto-tune "wide-band" sensor. I learned this lesson the hard way.... I experienced nearly the same thing you described.

Here is why: The wide-band sensor only reads above 5,000 rpm. If you un-plug the OEM "narrow-band" sensor, and only use the "wide-band" sensor, the ECU thinks there is a problem with the motor, and starts dumping extra fuel into the motor as a "safe-mode". At highway speeds, the MT-07 is just below 5,000 RPM. That MAY be why it corrects when you roll on the gas when it's happening- you are above the 5,000 RPM mark, and the autotune sensor kicks in and quickly corrects the A/F mixture. I removed the autotune kit, and it fixed all my issues. (I didn't want to weld a second O2 bung into my new Akra Ti exhaust) 

The valves are always a bit "noisy" on the MT-07, and are very doubtfully the problem with only 7,500 miles. Hope that helps. Good luck-

 

 

Thanks for your reply!

I do not have the autotune kit, just the standard PowerCommander 5.  Yesterday I noticed the ground wire of the PCV was connected to a painted part of the frame, moved the wire to negative pole of battery and took it for a test ride. Still experienced an uneven ride on low RPM as before, but no "bbuuuouuueehh"-moments. 

 

I plan to remove the PCV today and try to run it with the standard setup. 

Edited July 2, 2019 by GROTAL

[cornerslider]

I grounded my PCV directly to the negative battery terminal. You may want to try that first?

[GROTAL]

5 hours ago, cornerslider said:

I grounded my PCV directly to the negative battery terminal. You may want to try that first?

Yeah I tried it. Still experienced an uneven/irregular feeling on low RPM. Like the bike is stuttering forward for short moments when i'm giving it a steady throttle. 

Will try a longer test ride tomorrow, but I don't think it solved the issue. 

[norcal616]

What gear ?? 5th/6th gear at 20mph???  

The DNA filter lid is not much different than stock lid ... Try the original map that was installed previously... 

[GROTAL]

9 hours ago, norcal616 said:

What gear ?? 5th/6th gear at 20mph???  

The DNA filter lid is not much different than stock lid ... Try the original map that was installed previously... 

 

The bike suffers the same symptoms in all gears. Last time it died was in 4th gear (about 30mph), before that 3rd and 2nd gear. It seems like 3000-4000rpm is the most common spot for these problems to start.  

The original map (stock exhaust + stock intake) is installed on the PCV right now. 

Thanks for all the help guys!

[Beemer]

May sound dumb but double checked your spark plug connections? (Easiest things first they say)

[GROTAL]

On 7/1/2019 at 7:14 PM, cornerslider said:

I know it's a long shot.... But, does the bike have the "autotune" kit on the PCV? If so, unless you weld in a second exhaust bung for the "wide band" O2 sensor, it won't work properly. The installation instructions aren't very good with the auto-tune kit. You need to run the OEM O2 sensor (narrow-band), AND the auto-tune "wide-band" sensor. I learned this lesson the hard way.... I experienced nearly the same thing you described.

 Here is why: The wide-band sensor only reads above 5,000 rpm. If you un-plug the OEM "narrow-band" sensor, and only use the "wide-band" sensor, the ECU thinks there is a problem with the motor, and starts dumping extra fuel into the motor as a "safe-mode". At highway speeds, the MT-07 is just below 5,000 RPM. That MAY be why it corrects when you roll on the gas when it's happening- you are above the 5,000 RPM mark, and the autotune sensor kicks in and quickly corrects the A/F mixture. I removed the autotune kit, and it fixed all my issues. (I didn't want to weld a second O2 bung into my new Akra Ti exhaust) 

 The valves are always a bit "noisy" on the MT-07, and are very doubtfully the problem with only 7,500 miles. Hope that helps. Good luck-

 

 

Just pulled off all fairings and noticed an "02 optimizer".  

 

Is this standard on the PCV-kit (22-065) for FZ07? In the instructions nothing is mentioned about this.

I tried disconnecting it. Left the 02-sensor in place and disconnect it at the electrical connector. Started the bike: sounds normal, no error codes on display. Is it okay to test drive like this?

Thanks

 

EDIT: The install instructions on powercommander.com do not mention the 02 optimizer. But I found different instuctions on another webpage that mentions the optimizer: https://www.cyclegear.com/assets/0001/1315/dynojet_power_commander_v_fuel_ignition_yamaha_fz07.pdf

Edited July 8, 2019 by GROTAL

[cornerslider]

Mine came with the O2 optimizer. I have no clue what it actually does??? I installed it per the PCV instructions.

[stickshift]

The O2 optimizer richens up the air:fuel ratio when running in closed loop mode (constant throttle, highway etc) to improve performance with little effect on fuel economy.

[norcal616]

19 hours ago, GROTAL said:

Just pulled off all fairings and noticed an "02 optimizer".  

 

Is this standard on the PCV-kit (22-065) for FZ07? In the instructions nothing is mentioned about this.

I tried disconnecting it. Left the 02-sensor in place and disconnect it at the electrical connector. Started the bike: sounds normal, no error codes on display. Is it okay to test drive like this?

Thanks

 

Me thinks the bike was "tuned" professionally when you brought it and now the "tuned" map was thrown out when you installed the air box lid and changed the map... 

It may be difficult to re-install the map you had when you rode it home ( yeah it may have been labled "stock" map but was it verified against another "stock" map to see if any values changed?)

Also there is a chance the ECU has been flashed for certain things...

PCV maps are ment to work on factory OEM settings in the ECU- I know they don't work good when ECU has been flashed to allow Deccel Injection for example which is OFF via OEM settings...

[GROTAL]

Just now, norcal616 said:

 

Me thinks the bike was "tuned" professionally when you brought it and now the "tuned" map was thrown out when you installed the air box lid and changed the map... 

 It may be difficult to re-install the map you had when you rode it home ( yeah it may have been labled "stock" map but was it verified against another "stock" map to see if any values changed?)

 Also there is a chance the ECU has been flashed for certain things...

 PCV maps are ment to work on factory OEM settings in the ECU- I know they don't work good when ECU has been flashed to allow Deccel Injection for example which is OFF via OEM settings...

The guy who sold it said it only had a "stock map" on the PCV when I bought it. 

Rode it for about 40 minutes today with the 02 optimizer disconnected (and with original 02 sensor connected). No error codes and I think it ran smoother than before. No bueuaoohh-deaths or uneven feeling on low rpm. Unfortunately, the ride was cut short because of rain.

Will test again tomorrow.