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Cruizin

Rode up on a tragedy today. Get good gear, people!

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Bigturbomax

I know none of us like to talk about it, but it needs saying. Thanks for reminding. And for sharing the link. Im sorry to hear that a fellow rider was lost today. 

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Zephyr

Timely post.  I get the local police notifications sent to my phone.  Guy on a Harley died this morning when a young guy decided to overtake on a double yellow and hit the motorcyclist head on.  Tragedy just because some kid decided he wanted to save a few seconds on his commute into work.  Not sure if the Harley guy had on any gear (most don't wear any here as it's not required by law).  I'm not going to preach to anyone about riding with full gear all of the time (I do 99+% of the time), but at least a quality helmet and rider safety/advanced courses are what I would consider a "minimum" reasonable suggestion.

 

Y'all stay alert and get home safe!

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NRWhiteKnight

@Cruizin @Zephyr Those words are very true. Good gear that properly fits is important and a rider safety course (beginner or experienced) can be very beneficial and as a rider and rider coach I encourage taking one even if you have been riding for longer than the universe has been in existence. I have heard stories of people taking on every year or two, some to brush of the winter dust, some to refresh their skills. I learned quite a lot during my rider coach training. I started to see the things I took for granted and saw things that normally just existed during my rides. I learn something every time I coach a class. I refresh a skill that may not be used every time I ride when I coach a class.

It's always sad to lose a member of the motorcycling community. It affects all of us whether we realize it or not because in many cases, we wonder how it happened. Yes, there may be a few details about the accidents, but most times, details are lacking without seeing the crash reconstruction teams report or one of us actually witnessing the accident, or hearing details from someone who did, such as if a helmet was in use.

<soapbox on> I see so many riders who don't wear gear. It frustrates me. It makes me angry. It makes me sad. And yes, I am guilty of calling them idiots because I don't, and never will, understand their choice to not wear gear, at the very least a helmet. However, that is my opinion and I do understand that, depending on location, they may have a right to choose whether or not to at least wear a helmet, durable pants, jacket, gloves, and protective footwear, and in some cases, eye protection. I also realize that even with all of that, nothing is a guarantee as we can only control ourselves, our actions on our rides, and the actions we take to protect ourselves. RISK. It's what everyone takes when we get up each day. How much risk is up to us. How much we protect ourselves while taking risk is also our choice. As they saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. I can't force people to wear gear, but I can continue speak about doing so, I can continue to educate riders of the benefits of doing so. <soapbox off>

 

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2018 MT-07 - Mods: Shorty Levers, Radiator Guard, Puig Sport Windscreen.

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Zephyr

@NRWhiteKnight Good post.  I wish that we had quality advanced classes available in my area.  The only class we currently have is MSF Basic 1.  I haven't even seen the Basic 2 available for a year or more (where it's essentially Basic1 with your own bike).  I try and watch a *lot* of youtube lessons from people that I trust; practice low-speed in the smallish parking lot here at my house; and be engaged in conscientiously applying those skills when I ride on the street.  I'd like to be doing at least one course a year if possible, but that's been difficult with the lack of time and opportunity.

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Grant31781

South Georgia is the land of SQUIDS! LOL!  I see flip flops and shorts  and sleeveless shirts. My favor one is the Harley guy smoking a cigarette. How do you smoke and ride a motorcycle?  The SQUIDS typically wear half helmets as well.  I like my full face helmet. I hit a bird the other day.  Grazed off the top of my helmet. That would have sucked  with no face shield.  Yes it is hot as  HELL here in the summer. We are going to be over 100 degrees for a few days. I have breathable summer over pants and a jacket.  Its a little hot but not that bad when moving.

I am a former SQUID. Back in the 90s and early 2000s I didn't know better. Everyone I knew did not have any gear just a helmet.

I think helmet rating is more important than price. ECE and or SNELL ratings are good. DOT not so much.  IMO full gear is good to minimize road rash and broken bones however in a bad crash I don't feel like it will do much. My jacket does not have a chest protector. That does not seem to be standard.

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Cruizin
8 hours ago, NRWhiteKnight said:

@Cruizin @Zephyr Those words are very true. Good gear that properly fits is important and a rider safety course (beginner or experienced) can be very beneficial and as a rider and rider coach I encourage taking one even if you have been riding for longer than the universe has been in existence. I have heard stories of people taking on every year or two, some to brush of the winter dust, some to refresh their skills. I learned quite a lot during my rider coach training. I started to see the things I took for granted and saw things that normally just existed during my rides. I learn something every time I coach a class. I refresh a skill that may not be used every time I ride when I coach a class.

It's always sad to lose a member of the motorcycling community. It affects all of us whether we realize it or not because in many cases, we wonder how it happened. Yes, there may be a few details about the accidents, but most times, details are lacking without seeing the crash reconstruction teams report or one of us actually witnessing the accident, or hearing details from someone who did, such as if a helmet was in use.

<soapbox on> I see so many riders who don't wear gear. It frustrates me. It makes me angry. It makes me sad. And yes, I am guilty of calling them idiots because I don't, and never will, understand their choice to not wear gear, at the very least a helmet. However, that is my opinion and I do understand that, depending on location, they may have a right to choose whether or not to at least wear a helmet, durable pants, jacket, gloves, and protective footwear, and in some cases, eye protection. I also realize that even with all of that, nothing is a guarantee as we can only control ourselves, our actions on our rides, and the actions we take to protect ourselves. RISK. It's what everyone takes when we get up each day. How much risk is up to us. How much we protect ourselves while taking risk is also our choice. As they saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. I can't force people to wear gear, but I can continue speak about doing so, I can continue to educate riders of the benefits of doing so. <soapbox off>

 

I take the advanced class every 3 years. I always find myself correctng bad habits after taking the course and Progressive gives me a discount for taking it. And I've been riding since the 70's. Started taking the class 15 years ago.

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Beemer

Anyone would be a fool to say that you are better off to not have gear on in most motorcycle accidents (no guarantee it will help or save your life, either) but safety isn't the only thing people consider when they ride. Freedom of choice is more important to many. I know it's hard for some folks to wrap their heads around that one but regardless of whether anyone understands or disagrees with a persons decision to not wear safety equipment, after the laughter of seeing them wearing flip-flops and shorts it is ultimately their decision and we have to respect that for not so obvious reasons. (Hint: Don't Feed Big Brother)

There are ways to increase your chances of staying out of an accident as mentioned in the article I'm giving a link to. Wearing safety equipment may protect you to a degree but it's not everything when it comes to safety. Here's what you can do to decrease your chances of getting into an accident in the first place. If interested, here ya go! Stay frosty!

HomePage.jpg

Hundreds of articles on Motorcycle Safety/Dynamics and accident case studies

 

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Beemer

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mjh937

While I can respect the freedom of choice argument and I am definitely against more regulation, I cannot imagine the last thing someone thinks when they come off their bike before they hit the ground is "I am glad I made the choice not to wear a helmet".  My choice is to maximize my chances of survival if the worst happens.  It is easy to think it will not happen to you, but nobody chooses to have an accident. 

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Benh972
11 hours ago, Zephyr said:

@NRWhiteKnight Good post.  I wish that we had quality advanced classes available in my area.  The only class we currently have is MSF Basic 1.  I haven't even seen the Basic 2 available for a year or more (where it's essentially Basic1 with your own bike).  I try and watch a *lot* of youtube lessons from people that I trust; practice low-speed in the smallish parking lot here at my house; and be engaged in conscientiously applying those skills when I ride on the street.  I'd like to be doing at least one course a year if possible, but that's been difficult with the lack of time and opportunity.

Omg I feel your pain on this so much! I bought My FZ right around a year ago now, when I bought the bike I set aside funds for an advanced rider course.

My previous bikes were a CBR 250R, and a Ninja 300, so I wanted to get some educational seat time on my machine that is roughly twice as powerful as any bike I have had experience with, and make sure I am not developing bad habits before they get too set in. All the schools near me have full schedules of the basic rider courses. 

The schools around here don't really seem like educational enterprises, they are more or less M endorsement mills. 

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DewMan

Back in approximately 1988 when I awoke, after blacking out upon impact, and felt my head sliding along the asphalt...... my first thought was "I'm sure glad I have my helmet on."  

I can't find anyone offering anything more than the MSF Basic 1 class in this metro area of 2.7 million residents. 😒

 


DewMan
 
Just shut up and ride.

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maybe07

Always stay vigilant, and be aware. On May 23, 2019, a large group of motorcyclists paid tribute to the rider who died in Ferndale, Washington. 

 

image.jpg

More than 100 motorcyclists gathered at Greenacres Memorial Park in Ferndale, Wash., on Thursday, May 23, 2019, to pay tribute to Penny Jefferson – a member of Lummi Nation who died in a...

 

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Beemer
14 hours ago, mjh937 said:

While I can respect the freedom of choice argument and I am definitely against more regulation, I cannot imagine the last thing someone thinks when they come off their bike before they hit the ground is "I am glad I made the choice not to wear a helmet".  My choice is to maximize my chances of survival if the worst happens.  It is easy to think it will not happen to you, but nobody chooses to have an accident. 

I can't imagine anyone saying that either, who could? I don't want to see people get hurt either but most people know they're taking their chances so why bother telling them what they already know. I think the bigger question, other than what safety gear, is if bikes are dangerous (and they are) why are we talking about safety gear? We should be telling each other not to ride, lol! 

 


Beemer

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7fold

Honestly, I did more research on my gear than I did on my MT before I bought it. I literally spent weeks reading about helmets and armor; ECE, DOT, Snell, SHARP, CE, slide time, etc. You name it, I looked at what it was and what it meant and whether or not I needed it. I even got as granular as only considering gloves that had scaphoid sliders on them and boots that had protection against both hyperflexion and hyperextension (as most do) but also protection against lateral/medial flexion and extension. 

I bought all of my gear one or two pieces at a time well before I even sat down on a motorcycle. I've been through way too much in my life to waste it with sub-par gear. My family and loved ones mean way too much to me to even question "should I really spend the money on a Shoei RF1200 or go with something cheaper?"

BTW, I also work in an emergency department. So I see first-hand what happens when people try to make the "it's too hot out for my jacket" excuse. Put on a base layer, wear a perforated leather jacket or something as abrasion resistant and appreciate the life you have. We all have people out there depending on us whether we realize it or not. 

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Beemer

A summer mesh jacket may help to keep you cooler while moving but be warned about them in slow traffic, being an extra layer (mesh or not) can be detrimental to your health. In the right conditions it can affect you and cause you harm, especially if you have a health condition where heat affects you quicker than most. Doctors would agree with this, it's why they always warn people on the news to dress light on hot days.

All I'm saying is ride smart and watch closely how you feel when it's real hot. If you feel too hot and a little light headed it may be time to shed your protective jacket. That is unless you think being close to passing out increases your chances of staying safe on your bike, lol! Be safe and stay frosty!

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Beemer

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7fold
1 hour ago, Beemer said:

A summer mesh jacket may help to keep you cooler while moving but be warned about them in slow traffic, being an extra layer (mesh or not) can be detrimental to your health. In the right conditions it can affect you and cause you harm, especially if you have a health condition where heat affects you quicker than most. Doctors would agree with this, it's why they always warn people on the news to dress light on hot days.

All I'm saying is ride smart and watch closely how you feel when it's real hot. If you feel too hot and a little light headed it may be time to shed your protective jacket. That is unless you think being close to passing out increases your chances of staying safe on your bike, lol! Be safe and stay frosty!

This is true regardless of outdoor activity though and even if you're in a t-shirt, you can still become dehydrated very quickly. Adequate hydration starting the day before (something not many people do...drink plain water!) and evaporative base layers help immensely. Wear a pack with a bladder or throw some water bottles in a regular backpack and take breaks.

I'm definitely not saying wear a tracksuit every time you ride lmao, hot weather gear has definitely come a long way. Just don't be that guy in a t-shirt and cargo shorts expecting to walk away from a slide with everything intact.

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Beemer
11 hours ago, 7fold said:

This is true regardless of outdoor activity though and even if you're in a t-shirt, you can still become dehydrated very quickly. Adequate hydration starting the day before (something not many people do...drink plain water!) and evaporative base layers help immensely. Wear a pack with a bladder or throw some water bottles in a regular backpack and take breaks.

I'm definitely not saying wear a tracksuit every time you ride lmao, hot weather gear has definitely come a long way. Just don't be that guy in a t-shirt and cargo shorts expecting to walk away from a slide with everything intact.

 I wasn't talking about hydration, I was talking about health conditions that people may have that make them more susceptible to heat stroke. I'm talking about people like myself with diabetes or other conditions that affect them quicker than others in the heat. Some of your info on hydrating is questionable but I'm sure it wouldn't hurt anyone.

How-Hot-and-Cold-Weather-Affect-Your-Blo

When you have type 2 diabetes, extreme temperatures can affect your blood sugar. Learn how to stay in control of diabetes...

 

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Beemer

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NRWhiteKnight
4 hours ago, Beemer said:

 I wasn't talking about hydration, I was talking about health conditions that people may have that make them more susceptible to heat stroke. I'm talking about people like myself with diabetes or other conditions that affect them quicker than others in the heat. Some of your info on hydrating is questionable but I'm sure it wouldn't hurt anyone.

How-Hot-and-Cold-Weather-Affect-Your-Blo

When you have type 2 diabetes, extreme temperatures can affect your blood sugar. Learn how to stay in control of diabetes...

 

Diabetes sucks. I have it. It is the cause of every other illness in the world (if yo believe the inter-webs). It is the bane of my existence. But I digress.  Good point, Beemer. It is always a positive to stay hydrated, especially in extreme temps. 


2018 MT-07 - Mods: Shorty Levers, Radiator Guard, Puig Sport Windscreen.

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Terry_b
On 5/23/2019 at 4:51 AM, NRWhiteKnight said:

<soapbox on> I see so many riders who don't wear gear. It frustrates me. It makes me angry. It makes me sad. And yes, I am guilty of calling them idiots because I don't, and never will, understand their choice to not wear gear, at the very least a helmet. However, that is my opinion and I do understand that, depending on location, they may have a right to choose whether or not to at least wear a helmet, durable pants, jacket, gloves, and protective footwear, and in some cases, eye protection. I also realize that even with all of that, nothing is a guarantee as we can only control ourselves, our actions on our rides, and the actions we take to protect ourselves. RISK. It's what everyone takes when we get up each day. How much risk is up to us. How much we protect ourselves while taking risk is also our choice. As they saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. I can't force people to wear gear, but I can continue speak about doing so, I can continue to educate riders of the benefits of doing so. <soapbox off>

 

I completely agree on all points. Just getting on and riding is a risk in itself. Cars have airbags and seat belts, crumple zones and safety glass... none of which apply to us as riders. Your crash protection is on you, literally and figuratively. I live in a helmet mandated state, but I still can't help but shake my head at the flimsy little brain buckets that a LOT of riders choose to wear. I'll admit, I will sometimes accept a higher risk and forgo the jacket, and I generally ride in jeans. But bare minimum, helmet, gloves and boots protect me. But this is my educated and informed level of risk acceptance, and I also don't generally ride at highway speeds anymore, just curvy backroads with my girlfriend. 

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NRWhiteKnight

I must confess to not understanding the logic behind states that do not require helmet use. Please don't take that as a knock against the right to choose, I am looking at this from a safety point of view. Automobiles after a certain year are required to have safety belts (seat belts if you will). Now, a seat belt is considered a safety device in cars, just as air bags are safety devices. These are not accessories.

Now, helmets are a safety device, right? To be legally used on the road (or in competition), they need to pass a minimum level of testing, in the U.S.A., that would be DOT. Snell and ECE standards are higher and exceed the DOT level, making a helmet with these certifications legal to use. I won't go into novelty helmets, as they are just that, novelties. I have on in my office on a shelf, never to be used on the road. Ever.

Here is the confusion of the logic: Seat belts are required in all states, and required to be used in many (if not all) states and helmets are not. Yet, both are safety devices. Yes, seat belts only come in certain colors, depending on manufacturer, where as helmets come in a myriad of colors and paint schemes and can even be custom painted. This does not invalidate their purpose. Yet there are those that seem to think that helmets are an accessory, and to me, states that are helmet optional appear to consider them just that, an accessory.

And the hypocrisy of states that are helmet optional that have restrictions that require use of a helmet for those that are of legal age to obtain their endorsement, but are under a certain age and/or have not had their endorsement for a certain amount of time, as well as the requirement to use a seat belt instead of it being optional to use, is not lost on me. All I can do is just shake my head.

In the end, we all make our own choices, good or bad, right or wrong. We all take some level of risk, high, average, or low. But not all of us will choose to protect ourselves as best that we are able.

My choices: I always wear a helmet, gloves, long pants (jeans when not using my textile riding pants or race gear), and unless its a ride around town or to work and back (1 mile one way), I have full race boots, otherwise, basketball shoes as they cover my ankle and have a grippy sole, and a spine protector.

My choices are not necessarily the same as others. Others are certainly able to make their own choices about how much or how little protection they wear. And that is just it, it's their/your choice.

 

 

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2018 MT-07 - Mods: Shorty Levers, Radiator Guard, Puig Sport Windscreen.

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7fold
On 5/26/2019 at 2:58 AM, Beemer said:

 I wasn't talking about hydration, I was talking about health conditions that people may have that make them more susceptible to heat stroke. I'm talking about people like myself with diabetes or other conditions that affect them quicker than others in the heat. Some of your info on hydrating is questionable but I'm sure it wouldn't hurt anyone.

How-Hot-and-Cold-Weather-Affect-Your-Blo

When you have type 2 diabetes, extreme temperatures can affect your blood sugar. Learn how to stay in control of diabetes...

 

Not quite sure what you're questioning regarding my advice to stay hydrated by drinking water, but whatever. Even your "article" literally states the importance of drinking plain water to maintain hydration. Also, temperatures have no effect on blood sugar directly so you may want to do a bit more research. Again, referencing your "article" it mentions that dehydration can lead to increased blood glucose levels secondary to poor renal perfusion and while that plays a part, it's also due to hemoconcentration (from being dehydrated...) that leads to elevations in essentially all electrolytes and most other lab values as well.

Now if you said that when you are actually dehydrated, drinking a ton of plain water would send you into the opposite end of the spectrum by causing hemodilution or water intoxication and that you should drink something along the lines of sports drinks with eletrolytes or pedialyte, then that's fine...but somehow I doubt that's what your train of thought was. I can talk about fluids and electrolytes, serum osmolality, risks of osmotic demyelination syndrome all day, but I do enough of that at work...and this is a motorcycle forum haha.

 The only thing that can really be considered "more susceptible" is the fact that some symptoms of heat stroke can mimic hypo or hyperglycemia. 

I'm not here to argue, just stay safe out there. I've already lost a few friends (as I'm sure many of us have) and it sucks to say the least. Just trying to help out, but regardless, the rider is responsible for their own risk - I'm sure we can all agree on that.

 

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Beemer

I

15 hours ago, 7fold said:

Not quite sure what you're questioning regarding my advice to stay hydrated by drinking water, but whatever. Even your "article" literally states the importance of drinking plain water to maintain hydration. Also, temperatures have no effect on blood sugar directly so you may want to do a bit more research. Again, referencing your "article" it mentions that dehydration can lead to increased blood glucose levels secondary to poor renal perfusion and while that plays a part, it's also due to hemoconcentration (from being dehydrated...) that leads to elevations in essentially all electrolytes and most other lab values as well.

Now if you said that when you are actually dehydrated, drinking a ton of plain water would send you into the opposite end of the spectrum by causing hemodilution or water intoxication and that you should drink something along the lines of sports drinks with eletrolytes or pedialyte, then that's fine...but somehow I doubt that's what your train of thought was. I can talk about fluids and electrolytes, serum osmolality, risks of osmotic demyelination syndrome all day, but I do enough of that at work...and this is a motorcycle forum haha.

 The only thing that can really be considered "more susceptible" is the fact that some symptoms of heat stroke can mimic hypo or hyperglycemia. 

I'm not here to argue, just stay safe out there. I've already lost a few friends (as I'm sure many of us have) and it sucks to say the least. Just trying to help out, but regardless, the rider is responsible for their own risk - I'm sure we can all agree on that.

 

Again, I'm not arguing the causes of heat stroke, heat exhaustion or low blood sugar nor am I talking about the prevention of them, I am only stating what a person should do after the fact when they have symptoms of any of the aforementioned. Drinking water to hydrate the day before a ride and effectively pissing away your prevention before the ride is what I questioned because I've never heard or read that anywhere. What I always see and hear is hydrate the morning of your activity in the heat. 

This misunderstanding thing happens a lot on the web apparently so no hard feelings. ✌️

 

 

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Beemer

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Redempire
Posted (edited)

We had the memorial today for a coworker. B track rider (R6), had on full face, leather jacket with armor, boots, gloves. Car turned left in front of him at 45. He would have been fine, however, he was swerving to avoid when he hit the car and was ejected into a pole and was killed instantly. A lady pumping gas across the street saw and had a heart attack. When the medics arrived, they treated her as my buddy was already gone. He got a promotion at the beginning of the month and married one week prior.

He was on his BMW S1000RR that he ordered from the factory in Germany, picked up, and drove back to Italy.  It's rough around here because its a big golf area and there are way to many old folks that should not be on the road. I bought a steel bumper after the last rear end I suffered through on the truck.

Edited by Redempire

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