How far down the Rabbit Hole will I go?

[pgeldz]

15 hours ago, mossrider said:

I was just curious about the forks. To each his own I say. I'm not bright enough to educate anyone but I'll put some thoughts up for consideratioon. 

I've had modified stock forks since the beginning. Before racing mine for the past 2 years in the superbike class I raced it for 2 years in the supersport class so had to keep the stock forks. Altho I was allowed internal modification, I've yet to measure any on track deficiency. I've had racers from novice riders to AMA pros turn laps on it and race it in both sprint races and team endurance events. We've run it in 3 MotoAmerica Twins Cup events now as well. We have been the only Yamaha in the class with stock forks yet we beat many with R6 fronts as it routinely does in club races. It handles wonderfully, feedback is sharp and precise and performance wise you'd have to be a top rider to find them lacking on track. Some would argue this but about half the Suzuki's on the grid including the class champion are on modified stock forks. 

As for cool factor we lose that big time. R6 fronts are cool, very upgradable and very adjustable. They have radial mounted brake calipers (altho the calipers and pads themselves are the same opposed 4 piston spec) and better discs altho again I'm not sure you could ever convince me my brakes are lacking in any power or feel. R6 fronts also give the option for higher spec upgrades including quick change parts and ready access to premium parts, wheels and spares trackside. Parts for fixing stock can be trouble in the paddock unless there is a healthy supersport race presence at that track or event.  The biggest handicap of stock forks is off track. This includes access to up-spec parts and the speed at which one can swap wheels under the clock. It's simply easier and faster to swap a front r6 than a stock fz07 wheel. A real problem in a pro race when the weather won't settle down. 

I'm a club racer and always will be. We've bumped up and ran a few pro races but remain club racers. I have a very limited budget, no crew, no sponsorships and don't intend to go pro. We're just having fun and lots of it. I've stopped short of a full on motor build due to cost and reliability. I stopped short of a fork swap for similar reasons. 

If one was a pro level A rider with a team, suport, sponsorships, mounting a championship run I would say an R6 conversion is mandatory. For the rest of us I say run what you want to. Besides I like being 'that guy'. 

 

Yeah, I hear ya.  I'm in line with your thoughts.  To say it best for me...I think I wouldn't benefit from an R6 fork conversion.  My goals are simple.  Race the west coast rounds in MotoAmerica (Miler, Laguna Seca, Sonoma), qualify and not finish last.  If I can do that, I plan to do the same thing the year after in SuperStock 1000.

I'm trying to go about this cradle-to-grave.  I've tried to build up my racecraft on the R3, but age limit rules prevent me from doing the Junior Cup.  I already have a decently sorted FZ-07, so it was natural to try and race that in MotoAmerica.  I'll change *some* things up (hence the motor work), probably suspension, and some other componentry to align with my current sponsors and try to be reasonably competitive for the equipment I have, but I'm not throwing the kitchen sink at it this go around as I know the national level can and will become quite an expense.

From a guy who couldn't walk 8 years ago (was paralyzed and lost all function in my right leg), to be doing this AT ANY LEVEL is nothing short of a miracle.

They say you only live once.  That's a crock.  You DIE once...you get to LIVE every day, so that's what I'm doing - I'm LIVING, not just being alive

 

[pgeldz]

So, I got the bored out throttle bodies back...

Remember that intake solution I mentioned?

I just installed it

I've collaborated with CarbonSmith and MWR to make it reality.

I originally wanted a simple plate design with a custom MWR filter, but when MWR said they were extremely busy with World Superbike development, I came up with a different plan they could execute much more easily.

I'm glad I did.  The new intake solution is a velocity stack design by CarbonSmith, utilizing MWR's *universal* pod filters.  When tested on a mildly built motor, it made 4.5 more than the plate type design with a K&N filter, without loosing anything below..  We did try the plate design with a custom Unifilter (since a custom MWR filter was unavailable due to WSBK constraints) and it also did good, but the velocity stack set up was still the best.

Keep in mind this was with no additional tuning at all, and the Performance filter material from MWR.

Since the results were so positive, I asked MWR to make me the pod filters in the RACE filter material, which is the same material they use for all the WSBK filters.  Since they just had to make the filters out of RACE material and not design a custom filter from scratch, they did it for me no problem.

I can't wait to see the results.  You can see the RACE material vs the Performance material in the pics below.  The RACE material is much more porous, and you can actually see through it.

Keep your fingers crossed

 

[sorkyah]

1 hour ago, pgeldz said:

So, I got the bored out throttle bodies back...

Remember that intake solution I mentioned?

I just installed it

I've collaborated with CarbonSmith and MWR to make it reality.

I originally wanted a simple plate design with a custom MWR filter, but when MWR said they were extremely busy with World Superbike development, I came up with a different plan they could execute much more easily.

I'm glad I did.  The new intake solution is a velocity stack design by CarbonSmith, utilizing MWR's *universal* pod filters.  When tested on a mildly built motor, it made 4.5 more than the plate type design with a K&N filter, without loosing anything below..  We did try the plate design with a custom Unifilter (since a custom MWR filter was unavailable due to WSBK constraints) and it also did good, but the velocity stack set up was still the best.

Keep in mind this was with no additional tuning at all, and the Performance filter material from MWR.

Since the results were so positive, I asked MWR to make me the pod filters in the RACE filter material, which is the same material they use for all the WSBK filters.  Since they just had to make the filters out of RACE material and not design a custom filter from scratch, they did it for me no problem.

I can't wait to see the results.  You can see the RACE material vs the Performance material in the pics below.  The RACE material is much more porous, and you can actually see through it.

Keep your fingers crossed

 

Soft ban for posting porn

[mossrider]

Just now, pgeldz said:

So, I got the bored out throttle bodies back...

Remember that intake solution I mentioned?

I just installed it

I've collaborated with CarbonSmith and MWR to make it reality.

I originally wanted a simple plate design with a custom MWR filter, but when MWR said they were extremely busy with World Superbike development, I came up with a different plan they could execute much more easily.

I'm glad I did.  

Can't believe it took me a half hour to spot this post, I must be getting slow.

Nice, when can I expect my test unit? 

Edited June 25, 2019 by mossrider

[pgeldz]

9 minutes ago, mossrider said:

Can't believe it took me a half hour to spot this post, I must be getting slow.

Nice, when can I expect my test unit? 

 

Still need to develop a catch can solution and see what's what.  After it's all said and done, I'm looking to make a retail solution to be sold thru BellissiMoto and CarbonSmith exclusively.  Price TBD, but the goal is to come in well under what's currently on the market (bored throttle bodies not included, haha).

[stickshift]

Very nice, can we see the velocity stacks?

How much were your throttle bodies bored out?

[CarbonSmith]

2 hours ago, stickshift said:

Very nice, can we see the velocity stacks?

How much were your throttle bodies bored out?

 

[pgeldz]

3 hours ago, stickshift said:

Very nice, can we see the velocity stacks?

How much were your throttle bodies bored out?

Looks like CarbonSmith beat me to it

As far as the throttle bodies, they were done by Zoran at TWF Racing.  Not sure the exact specs though.

[mossrider]

They start out at 38mm, kind of, as they have a taper/step and an odd shape and smaller size on the motor side. He takes them to 39mm throughout. 

Here are the before and after pics;

Inlet side before...

After,

Motor side before,

And after,

[blackout]

19 hours ago, pgeldz said:

 

Still need to develop a catch can solution and see what's what.  After it's all said and done, I'm looking to make a retail solution to be sold thru BellissiMoto and CarbonSmith exclusively.  Price TBD, but the goal is to come in well under what's currently on the market (bored throttle bodies not included, haha).

When you say "catch can solution", do you mean an air box to surround the filters to make it MotoAmerica legal?  Thanks.

[pgeldz]

1 hour ago, blackout said:

When you say "catch can solution", do you mean an air box to surround the filters to make it MotoAmerica legal?  Thanks.

No, I mean some sort of breather tube with oil containment, so if the bike falls over oil doesn't go spewing out, haha

My understanding is that the existing plate design on the market with K&N filter has the vent hose that goes on the nipple of the plate near the filter.  When it was taken off to try my solution, there was oil all inside and around the filter, so I'd like to avoid that with my solution

[mossrider]

Just now, pgeldz said:

No, I mean some sort of breather tube with oil containment, so if the bike falls over oil doesn't go spewing out, haha

My understanding is that the existing plate design on the market with K&N filter has the vent hose that goes on the nipple of the plate near the filter.  When it was taken off to try my solution, there was oil all inside and around the filter, so I'd like to avoid that with my solution

In the old days we'd just cap off the crankcase vents with a small clamp on unifilter and route them out of the way. This worked fine for street use and could be hidden out of the way and periodically cleaned or replaced. It wasn't environmentally responsible but the amount of oil it released was minuscule.

The problem is for MotoAmerica you must vent the crankcase breather into the airbox per rules. This necessitates an 'airbox' and a functional crankcase breather mounted into it.

 

I think in order to be EPA compliant one might need to somehow vent any 'emissions' back into the filters and/or airbox to be reburned.

Edited June 26, 2019 by mossrider

[pgeldz]

Just now, mossrider said:

In the old days we'd just cap off the crankcase vents with a small clamp on unifilter and route them out of the way. This worked fine for street use and could be hidden out of the way and periodically cleaned or replaced. It wasn't environmentally responsible but the amount of oil it released was minute.

The problem is for MotoAmerica you must vent the crankcase breather into the airbox per rules. This necessitates an 'airbox' and a functional crankcase breather mounted into it.

 

True.  My solution won't be Moto America legal.  When I get to the point of competing in MA, I'll come up with another solution, or go with something that's already legal.

I want to build my bike my way, and not go with the established order so to speak, haha.  When it's time for MA, I'll change as needed to make it legal.

I'm doing my best to partner up with some of the companies I already have an established relationship with since they've helped me so much in the past on my R3 campaign, but there are also new opportunities, people, and companies I'm seeking out also where it makes sense...if that makes sense

[mossrider]

Just now, pgeldz said:

True.  My solution won't be Moto America legal.  When I get to the point of competing in MA, I'll come up with another solution, or go with something that's already legal.

I want to build my bike my way, and not go with the established order so to speak, haha.  When it's time for MA, I'll change as needed to make it legal.

I'm doing my best to partner up with some of the companies I already have an established relationship with since they've helped me so much in the past on my R3 campaign, but there are also new opportunities, people, and companies I'm seeking out also where it makes sense...if that makes sense

I get it, I'm just saying that in order to be able to sell something commercially you may have to consider compliance in whatever market you're shooting for. I have no idea what those may be. Of course there's always the "For off road use only" angle...

[pgeldz]

4 minutes ago, mossrider said:

I get it, I'm just saying that in order to be able to sell something commercially you may have to consider compliance in whatever market you're shooting for. I have no idea what those may be. Of course there's always the "For off road use only" angle...

For sure.  Which is why I want to have a containment of some sort for the crank case breather

[blackout]

Because my crazy brain is always thinking about winter projects during the summer, my round 2 "intake solution" has started coming together in my head, but sadly is not MA legal, but for a completely different reason....  lol

[pgeldz]

Well, pretty far down the rabbit hole it seems...

Just confirmed...Dymag forged aluminum wheels, Gilles Tooling bits, and Galespeed Master Cylinder and Clutch Perch.

Oh, how my wallet hates me right now!

- Paul

[Evill_Ed]

24 minutes ago, pgeldz said:

Well, pretty far down the rabbit hole it seems...

Just confirmed...Dymag forged aluminum wheels, Gilles Tooling bits, and Galespeed Master Cylinder and Clutch Perch.

Oh, how my wallet hates me right now!

- Paul

On the plus side, your are maintaining your "Hero Status" with me and the others. 

[pgeldz]

10 minutes ago, Evill_Ed said:

On the plus side, your are maintaining your "Hero Status" with me and the others. 

Haha.  Glad to know y'all get a kick out of me going broke!  LOL!

[Evill_Ed]

3 hours ago, pgeldz said:

Haha.  Glad to know y'all get a kick out of me going broke!  LOL!

I can't speak for the others, but I do 

Honestly, your original build caused me to spend a few thou$and this winter. 

Ed

[DewMan]

6 hours ago, pgeldz said:

Haha.  Glad to know y'all get a kick out of me going broke!  LOL!

Better you than me.

[fzar]

On 5/21/2019 at 5:32 PM, DewMan said:

Sounds like you're on the way.

Can you tell us why you decided to change from Yoyodyne Slipper Clutch for a Suter?

Because it's Suter. I'm joking because Iv'e been following their stuff for a while and its amazing what they do over there, with every part. I know you were asking a question as to why? I couldn't stop myself. 

[fzar]

6 hours ago, pgeldz said:

Haha.  Glad to know y'all get a kick out of me going broke!  LOL!

I could help ya out and buy that rear link, if you decide to sell it. Get ya going in the other direction, not much but it all helps!!

[pgeldz]

On 6/27/2019 at 5:07 PM, fzar said:

I could help ya out and buy that rear link, if you decide to sell it. Get ya going in the other direction, not much but it all helps!!

I AM definitely selling the Altus rear link.  Brand new, never installed, with new dust seals and bearings still in the packaging.

Going a different direction, and It's supposed to be one of the best links out there, but I decided to do something different, and go full 'custom' haha.

PM if you'd like the link

[pgeldz]

On 6/19/2019 at 5:30 PM, blackout said:

 

And shall we spec out a new top triple for stock forks?  A top triple could be designed to allow a more flat piece.  This would allow clip-ons to move up a little higher.   I have not measured, but I believe the stock triple forces the clip-ons lower than the R6 front.  And the stock pinch bolts interfere with risers.  Any thoughts? 

Yes...my thoughts are that the new custom triple I'm having made for the stock 41mm forks should hopefully solve this problem!

- Paul