How far down the Rabbit Hole will I go?

[pgeldz]

On 6/5/2019 at 1:08 PM, ajpags said:

Are you selling that AP link you're not using?

I will once it's out of the bike...

- Paul

[pgeldz]

Progress!

 

[mossrider]

Just now, pgeldz said:

Progress!

I'd argue regress, lol.

[pgeldz]

Just now, mossrider said:

I'd argue regress, lol.

Haha!  I know right?

Should be a fun little project.  Curious how much hp and tq it'll make when it's all said and done.

I'll have the throttle bodies in my possession soon and they are getting worked over...should help some

[mossrider]

Just now, pgeldz said:

Haha!  I know right?

Should be a fun little project.  Curious how much hp and tq it'll make when it's all said and done.

I'll have the throttle bodies in my possession soon and they are getting worked over...should help some

Are you going all in? If you do cams, pistons, rods, porting and bored tb's plus a valve job then 95-100, but you'll be refreshing it regularly and you'll have to rework the tranny too. If you build a superbike club motor around 88-90 and less hassle, no refresh, no tranny rework, saves about $2,000 but where's the fun in that!? 

Do it!

[pgeldz]

25 minutes ago, mossrider said:

Are you going all in? If you do cams, pistons, rods, porting and bored tb's plus a valve job then 95-100, but you'll be refreshing it regularly and you'll have to rework the tranny too. If you build a superbike club motor around 88-90 and less hassle, no refresh, no tranny rework, saves about $2,000 but where's the fun in that!? 

Do it!

Doing head work, cams, TB's, new bearings and rings, and minimal tranny work (shimming, etc), along with my new intake solution.  This gentleman got 94 reliable hp out of another motor he build for MotoAmerica with just headowrk and cams, but I believe it may have been on different gas.  I'll be running Chevron 91 in mine, so I'm hoping to get around 85-95hp.

Honestly, not really concerned with the number, more concerned with the GAINS from where it dyno'd right now.  All dyno's read different, but the gains on the same dyno mean more to me, as the dyno is just a tool.

Currently, my bike made 76 hp and I believe 50 or 51 flt lbs of torque on his dyno.  I have an MWR Air Filter/Air box lid cover, Akra Ti full exhaust without baffle, tuned previously with a PCV.

But even that doesn't tell the whole story.  Those were peak numbers, but area under the curve?  Much more important.

I believe when I first did all this a while back, it made like 12 hp over stock right in the midrange, which for the street, was awesome!  For racing though, I'd think I'd want to move the power further in the rev range.  We'll see how she does when it's all said and done.

 

[Evill_Ed]

You're Goin' Pretty Far Down that Rabbit Hole

 

Ed

[pgeldz]

37 minutes ago, Evill_Ed said:

You're Goin' Pretty Far Down that Rabbit Hole

 

Ed

No, THIS would be going pretty far down the rabbit hole, haha.  Thinking of adopting these body panels to the FZ-07...hmm. 

[Evill_Ed]

1 hour ago, pgeldz said:

No, THIS would be going pretty far down the rabbit hole, haha.  Thinking of adopting these body panels to the FZ-07...hmm. 

That certainly would be cool.

[fzar]

7 hours ago, pgeldz said:

We'll see how she does when it's all said and done.

 

She...!!  So un -American (joking)  of you to use that kind of terminology. I rarely hear people talk about bikes,boats,cars and the like at all other than me. I do get strange looks!! Anyway, seem's like its going to be 1 hell of a build, when all is said and done. 

I admire your dedication, as I do to others who commit that much time and money for the LOVE of the game.

Good Luck, paulie.

[pgeldz]

22 hours ago, fzar said:

She...!!  So un -American (joking)  of you to use that kind of terminology. I rarely hear people talk about bikes,boats,cars and the like at all other than me. I do get strange looks!! Anyway, seem's like its going to be 1 hell of a build, when all is said and done. 

I admire your dedication, as I do to others who commit that much time and money for the LOVE of the game.

Good Luck, paulie.

Thanks man!

[fzar]

On 6/13/2019 at 11:41 AM, pgeldz said:

No, THIS would be going pretty far down the rabbit hole, haha.  Thinking of adopting these body panels to the FZ-07...hmm. 

Thats EROTIC. Not exotic. Pity it's shopped, maybe it's not!! I actually don't know, but to my knowledge, fly by wire brakes are not a thing. More than likely a concept illustration. It is erotic though.

[sorkyah]

54 minutes ago, fzar said:

Thats EROTIC. Not exotic. Pity it's shopped, maybe it's not!! I actually don't know, but to my knowledge, fly by wire brakes are not a thing. More than likely a concept illustration. It is erotic though.

Fly by wire brakes are very much a thingM

Most modern cars don't even have a booster anymore

It's all done with the abs pump, and when it senses you not braking hard enough, it accelerates your input

Would be like adding a second throttle to the bike, but instead of a tube it's a lever pulling on a pot or transducer with a double redundancy 

[norcal616]

nowadays one cannot pull off the good ole "handbrake slide" in cars before they became electronic or became foot pedal...that was TINDER before it ever became an app... the joys before smartphones ...

[pgeldz]

The above pic is in fact photoshopped, however, the body kit is very real.  They are by Paolo Tex Design in Italy.  BellissiMoto is the US importer and distributor, and I actually have one of his kits on my Ducati.

Now, if you want to really see some erotic bike porn, have a look at my very real 2007 Ducati Monster S4RS "GP"

 

[pgeldz]

Ok, back on topic...

While the motor is apart, I just sent my throttle bodies out to get bored...keep your fingers crossed!

- Paul

[FZ07R WaNaB]

On 6/13/2019 at 11:52 AM, pgeldz said:

Doing head work, cams, TB's, new bearings and rings, and minimal tranny work (shimming, etc), along with my new intake solution.  This gentleman got 94 reliable hp out of another motor he build for MotoAmerica with just headowrk and cams, but I believe it may have been on different gas.  I'll be running Chevron 91 in mine, so I'm hoping to get around 85-95hp.

FWIW, back in 2017, I was in the pits at the William Grove Half Mile professional flat track race talking with Sammy Halbert who was running the factory FZ-07. I asked him about much horsepower his FZ had, and he said 100 hp.

[pgeldz]

11 hours ago, FZ07R WaNaB said:

FWIW, back in 2017, I was in the pits at the William Grove Half Mile professional flat track race talking with Sammy Halbert who was running the factory FZ-07. I asked him about much horsepower his FZ had, and he said 100 hp.

Yes, that's correct.  Most of the flat trackers are around 100hp.  I've heard things about reliability issues at that power level, but I guess it just depends on how the motor is built, and what components were used to achieve that power level.

[pgeldz]

So, fleshing out an idea here...

Remember the Paolo Tex photoshopped bike I posted above?

It got me thinking...the whole purpose was to run true clip-ons.  However, unless I rework the OEM side panels, I still can't do that even with the Paolo Tex nose piece.

So, instead of creating more work in making custom side panels, I thought of adopting readily available tank and tail sections and using them in conjunction with the Paolo Tex nose piece and belly pan.

Had a go in Photoshop (actually Paint Shop Pro), and this is a rough guesstimate of what it would look like (before and after):

I think the tail section actually flows really well with the way the nose is shaped - they seem to compliment each other.  Of course the nose piece may not be to scale, but I tried to approximate the best I can.

Thoughts?

[mossrider]

I like it. Always been partial to retro-naked-AMA superbike look. 

Are you gonna go stock forks or R6? 

[pgeldz]

Stock forks.  I'm not sure I buy into the R6 front end.  In my research, I've read that the R6 front end is pretty stiff for the FZ-07 chassis.  Some say good, some say not.  I do know that you can bolt up better components with the R6 front end.  To me though, I'm not convinced it's needed.  I know guys with just cartridges on stock FZ-07 forks that RAIL.

Guess I won't know until I really get into it though.  I'm all ears if you want to educate me

- Paul

[mossrider]

I was just curious about the forks. To each his own I say. I'm not bright enough to educate anyone but I'll put some thoughts up for consideratioon. 

I've had modified stock forks since the beginning. Before racing mine for the past 2 years in the superbike class I raced it for 2 years in the supersport class so had to keep the stock forks. Altho I was allowed internal modification, I've yet to measure any on track deficiency. I've had racers from novice riders to AMA pros turn laps on it and race it in both sprint races and team endurance events. We've run it in 3 MotoAmerica Twins Cup events now as well. We have been the only Yamaha in the class with stock forks yet we beat many with R6 fronts as it routinely does in club races. It handles wonderfully, feedback is sharp and precise and performance wise you'd have to be a top rider to find them lacking on track. Some would argue this but about half the Suzuki's on the grid including the class champion are on modified stock forks. 

As for cool factor we lose that big time. R6 fronts are cool, very upgradable and very adjustable. They have radial mounted brake calipers (altho the calipers and pads themselves are the same opposed 4 piston spec) and better discs altho again I'm not sure you could ever convince me my brakes are lacking in any power or feel. R6 fronts also give the option for higher spec upgrades including quick change parts and ready access to premium parts, wheels and spares trackside. Parts for fixing stock can be trouble in the paddock unless there is a healthy supersport race presence at that track or event.  The biggest handicap of stock forks is off track. This includes access to up-spec parts and the speed at which one can swap wheels under the clock. It's simply easier and faster to swap a front r6 than a stock fz07 wheel. A real problem in a pro race when the weather won't settle down. 

I'm a club racer and always will be. We've bumped up and ran a few pro races but remain club racers. I have a very limited budget, no crew, no sponsorships and don't intend to go pro. We're just having fun and lots of it. I've stopped short of a full on motor build due to cost and reliability. I stopped short of a fork swap for similar reasons. 

If one was a pro level A rider with a team, suport, sponsorships, mounting a championship run I would say an R6 conversion is mandatory. For the rest of us I say run what you want to. Besides I like being 'that guy'. 

 

[blackout]

1 hour ago, mossrider said:

I was just curious about the forks. To each his own I say. I'm not bright enough to educate anyone but I'll put some thoughts up for consideratioon. 

I've had modified stock forks since the beginning. Before racing mine for the past 2 years in the superbike class I raced it for 2 years in the supersport class so had to keep the stock forks. Altho I was allowed internal modification, I've yet to measure any on track deficiency. I've had racers from novice riders to AMA pros turn laps on it and race it in both sprint races and team endurance events. We've run it in 3 MotoAmerica Twins Cup events now as well. We have been the only Yamaha in the class with stock forks yet we beat many with R6 fronts as it routinely does in club races. It handles wonderfully, feedback is sharp and precise and performance wise you'd have to be a top rider to find them lacking on track. Some would argue this but about half the Suzuki's on the grid including the class champion are on modified stock forks. 

As for cool factor we lose that big time. R6 fronts are cool, very upgradable and very adjustable. They have radial mounted brake calipers (altho the calipers and pads themselves are the same opposed 4 piston spec) and better discs altho again I'm not sure you could ever convince me my brakes are lacking in any power or feel. R6 fronts also give the option for higher spec upgrades including quick change parts and ready access to premium parts, wheels and spares trackside. Parts for fixing stock can be trouble in the paddock unless there is a healthy supersport race presence at that track or event.  The biggest handicap of stock forks is off track. This includes access to up-spec parts and the speed at which one can swap wheels under the clock. It's simply easier and faster to swap a front r6 than a stock fz07 wheel. A real problem in a pro race when the weather won't settle down. 

I'm a club racer and always will be. We've bumped up and ran a few pro races but remain club racers. I have a very limited budget, no crew, no sponsorships and don't intend to go pro. We're just having fun and lots of it. I've stopped short of a full on motor build due to cost and reliability. I stopped short of a fork swap for similar reasons. 

If one was a pro level A rider with a team, suport, sponsorships, mounting a championship run I would say an R6 conversion is mandatory. For the rest of us I say run what you want to. Besides I like being 'that guy'. 

 

Does your club racing superbike rules allow a custom fuel tank?

And shall we spec out a new top triple for stock forks?  I think Mossrider runs his forks up 8mm?  What is the least amount you would raise them?  A top triple could be designed to allow a more flat piece.  This would allow clip-ons to move up a little higher.   I have not measured, but I believe the stock triple forces the clip-ons lower than the R6 front.  And the stock pinch bolts interfere with risers.  Any thoughts? 

[mossrider]

Just now, blackout said:

Does your club racing superbike rules allow a custom fuel tank?

Yes.

[mossrider]

Oh no! Wait, are we planning and building again, lol?.