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Powernut

Mt07 2016 none starting

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Powernut

I've a mt07 2016 which I bought to fit in a project but struggling to get it to run .

I've fuel pump prime 

I've spark on both cylinders

No fuel injector power (not sure what the middle sensor between carbs is for .I've tryed another fuel pump .showing 3bar .on prime 

Tested injectors which work . Checked wireing to ECU and show continuity 

Tryed another ECU kit key transponder and ECU with no luck I've  good cranking rpm .read a post regards tilt sensor .orderd fitted a new one just incase (if someone has a pic how its mounted may be that?)

Theres no abs module on bike but dont think that would cause bike not to start

Is there anything else on the bike that would cause this fault as I'm at a loss

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Bigturbomax

Was this bike previously wrecked?

And im assuming this is a "crank-no start" sitiuation?

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ElGonzales

The "sensor" between the throttle bodies is the Idle speed control valve. 

You should  think at all this "side stand up, gears in neutral position" security stuff  too. 
There is also a timing mark accessing bolt beneath the oil filler cap.

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Powernut

Light damage front head and fork damage rest untouched .

So removed it all fitted in a dualsport bike  .but injectors will not inject fuel ....

No immo issuise 

Good spark

Good cranking

3bar fuel prime 

Bikes in neutral

Anyone know of ..what causes no injection while cranking 

Tryed another ECU kit..fuel.. stand switch.tilt switch..checked fuses plugs .

Dose the abs module wireing having to do with feed to them.

Anyone know what the fuel vacume silicon cut off is for as it goes to a round plastic clyinder under the throttle bodies

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norcal616

Is the dashboard hooked up??? I know some motorcycles have part of the ECU use the dashboard to convert signals...


2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW
 

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mossrider
Posted (edited)

First; You need to purchase a service manual.

Sounds to me like you have an immobilizer issue. The system uses a transpondered key, transceiver wired to the ignition switch and proprietary ecu communication that interrupts the injectors to prevent unauthorized starting of the vehicle. 

You said there is no power to the injectors but they test ok. Have you checked the injector relay?

The canister is part of the evaporative emissions system as is the vacuum canister and related plumbing. The abs has nothing to do with start up. 

Good luck. Tough to help from afar especially w/o access to the machine.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=FZ07+haynes+manual&ref=nb_sb_noss

Edit: misspoke, injector relay is handled by ecu, so you've checked by trying a replacement.

Edited by mossrider

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Powernut
9 hours ago, mossrider said:

First; You need to purchase a service manual.

Sounds to me like you have an immobilizer issue. The system uses a transpondered key, transceiver wired to the ignition switch and proprietary ecu communication that interrupts the injectors to prevent unauthorized starting of the vehicle. 

You said there is no power to the injectors but they test ok. Have you checked the injector relay?

The canister is part of the evaporative emissions system as is the vacuum canister and related plumbing. The abs has nothing to do with start up. 

Good luck. Tough to help from afar especially w/o access to the machine.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=FZ07+haynes+manual&ref=nb_sb_noss

 

I've gone thew  theres no faults or issuises with immobilizer  do dont get fuel prime or spark if immo was at fault .

Full manual on online  reading threw sounds like a possible abs module  ((

.The injection duration and the injection timing are controlled by the ECU. Signals that are input from the /throttle position /sensor,/ coolant temperature sensor, /lean angle sensor, /crankshaft position sensor, /in-take air pressure sensor,/ intake air temperature sensor, rear wheel sensor /and(( OECU to determine the injection duration.

The injection timing is determined through the signals from the crankshaft position sensor. As a result, the volume of fuel that is required by the engine can be suppliedat all times in accordance with the driving conditions

Only parts I'm missing are siolond which contects to 2 vacuum pipe near air box and a abs module which I've orderd

20190504_213553.jpg

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Powernut

Right we have some news  ....

I've spark and fuel pump prime .and injectors fireing fuel ..but  will still only start if I put fuel in carbs ..soon as it runs  out the engine stops..

Tryed swooping coil wireing and injector wires around  I dont evern get a back fire .unreal any advice before I burn it

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Powernut

White pickup trigger is it right that colours are opsite way when plugged in

received_1842320925870928.jpeg

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norcal616
40 minutes ago, Powernut said:

White pickup trigger is it right that colours are opsite way when plugged in

received_1842320925870928.jpeg

That connection only goes on one way due to design... Color mixing of the wires happens...

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2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW
 

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Powernut

Just White pickup trigger is it right that colours are opsite way when plugged in

Many thanks I assumed it should be grey to grey etc in the contector

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Powernut

Full issuise I'm faceing I just dont know what to try next..

Sorry to add . I've a issuise with getting my bike running mt07 2016 

Spent months. Still carnt work out why or what issuise is 

Good compression

Good spark

Good feul prime

And fuel injectors injecting fuel

Yet wont attempt to fire or backfire .

If I pop fuel into the rear of throttle bodies it will start run then die . Which possibly points to fuelling. 

Yet I removed throttle bodies  .(away from bike and extended  the coil and plug  went to crank and it set fuel alight..

So why the hell dosent it fire when injecting fuel... it will crank and crank and nothing .  Sure if timing was out it wouldn't start by putting fuel in carbs??

It's like possibly injecting fuel at wrong time.only thing I've not connected is the abs pump rest is connected. Ie sensors earths lives wireingconectors immo system..

Anyone ever come across this or possibly help advise issuise also tryed another fuel pump and ECU kit 

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cyow5

Timing for the injectors will help it idle smoother or rougher, but bad timing will still run. You saw that it ran by pouring in fuel, so that shows you how badly the ratio and timing can be and still fire. 

 

How did you confirm the injectors are spraying? 

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norcal616

Was the bike brought as wrecked? Salvage? Running?...

I would say look rather or not timing marks are lined up,you got compression, safety switches ( clutch, kick stand, etc).... 

Other than that- only so much can be accomplished via internet vs the bike being in my garage....


2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW
 

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Powernut
4 hours ago, cyow5 said:

Timing for the injectors will help it idle smoother or rougher, but bad timing will still run. You saw that it ran by pouring in fuel, so that shows you how badly the ratio and timing can be and still fire. 

 

How did you confirm the injectors are spraying? 

Removed throttle bodies  from engine turned igition on fuel pump primed . The cranked engine u see the injectors pulsing spraying . I then extended the spark plug to it and fuel ignited within first spark .so I know it's not spark or fuel 

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Powernut

Im wondering what else causes injectors to fire wrong .ie 

Fuel ignites when injector sprays fuel . Yet crank over in the bike I see black plugs with wet electrodes  u also see the spray missed from outlet of exhaust port.

But on a 4k mileage  bike engine  .which starts idiols if fuels entered in throttle bodies .

Compression geat 

Only thing what's not added is abs module. Rest is there complete.

So what would cause injecting fuel at wrong time .as theres no cam sensor 

Engine spark runs as wasted spark idea 

 

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shinyribs

I'm lost bro. I wish I knew something to help you. Good lock man, and keep fighting the good fight! lol

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cyow5
14 hours ago, Powernut said:

Removed throttle bodies  from engine turned igition on fuel pump primed . The cranked engine u see the injectors pulsing spraying . I then extended the spark plug to it and fuel ignited within first spark .so I know it's not spark or fuel 

I'm telling you, it isn't the timing of the injectors. The fuel sits on the back of the intake valve and waits its turn if it is injected too early. The engine runs fine, it just doesn't run as clean or as smooth. 

 

All I can think is that you proved the injectors work when removed from the bike. This does NOT prove they work when put back on the bike, so what changed? Think of everything you disconnected and reconnected after doing your test where they worked, and I pray it is one of those things, haha. 

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Powernut

 

I did check timing and its spot on ..

I've tryed another ECU same issuise

Another set of throttle bodies with another injection still wont fire ..crazy ..

I've gone threw and only thing I'm missing is abs pump .only option I've left to try.

rest has been checked tested swopped.  

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Powernut
8 hours ago, cyow5 said:

I'm telling you, it isn't the timing of the injectors. The fuel sits on the back of the intake valve and waits its turn if it is injected too early. The engine runs fine, it just doesn't run as clean or as smooth. 

 

All I can think is that you proved the injectors work when removed from the bike. This does NOT prove they work when put back on the bike, so what changed? Think of everything you disconnected and reconnected after doing your test where they worked, and I pray it is one of those things, haha. 

It dose when u see atomized mist blowing out the exhaust ports which tells me injectioning at wrong time

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cyow5
4 minutes ago, Powernut said:

It dose when u see atomized mist blowing out the exhaust ports which tells me injectioning at wrong time

No, there's no way fuel stays atomized that whole time with such a slow moving exhaust flow at, what, 200rpm. It'll condense then evaporate or just re-atomize (poorly). 

 

I use to specialize in start-up calibrations for race engines. An engine will light off on a huge range of ratios and any timing. There's just no way you are spraying all the fuel during overlap and getting it to go straight out the exhaust port without seeing the spark plug. 

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Powernut

I'll try get a video for you . I thought it's odd.  But personally carnt work out I didn't get a miss backfire just wet plugs and I can see the mist out of the exhaust port ..crazy I know but I'm not seeing things . I've looked in intake with butterfly flap open u can see injectors injecting too .

Soon as I pour fuel in she fires idiols a bit then dies and fuel burn out .. checked timing its spot on .

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atwater
Posted (edited)

I’m sure you’ve done this since you have a great grasp of motorcycle repair but you haven’t mentioned it. You have drained the tank/filter and put in fresh fuel? Water will go to bottom of the sump and fill the fuel rail. Injectors still fire but won’t do a thing and would explain your idling when feeding it fuel into the throttle body directly. Been down this road before on a triumph and that was the issue. 

Edited by atwater

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Powernut

Thanks for reply   tbh tbh wishing I'd not bought the conversion  . Anyway yep fresh fuel 2.9bar /43.5psi showing on gauge .removed injectors run some carb cleaner threw then then fired engine on brake cleaner .maybe not the best.but works left it running on the buggar just incase was any air  .water up around 56.

Air temp 9 seemed to idiol for approx  3 to seconds before going lumpy and dieing I thought bloody thing dosent want to run .. all I can do is awaited few other modules see if it improves anything if not ..I'm out of ideas.....

 

Anyone know how ECU knows when to inject fuel as spark is picked up via hall sensor .and fires as a wasted spark  

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Powernut

Anyone tell me were the conector is in the engine loom for the fuel solionod  thought it was the one coming off side off abs plug but that's inlet air sensor

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