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zooman72

Yoshi R-77 or Black Widow CL23R ???

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zooman72

Ok, after spending way too much time reading through all of the forum posts in this subforum (and other locations), plus watching a bunch of Youtube videos on both, I am up against it - which one to choose?  I was initially looking at the Ixil LX3, and then the Ebay "Chinese special" (i.e. Anodizing Racing), but after further consideration, it is down to these two.  They are approximately $100 apart (~$560 for the Yoshimura and ~$460 for the Black Widow, both via Ebay), and I plan on running both with the db-reducing inserts.  The Black Widow comes with a carbon fiber can, that sweet blue tip, and is 230mm in length, plus is $100 cheaper.  The Yoshimura has a stainless can (w/ c.f. tip) that may be a bit longer (but can't find the length?) with a trapezoidal shape (more baffle volume?), which I assume would be a bit quieter, and cost $100 more.  Both look good in their own way, and anything looks better than the factory setup!  I am not looking for power or torque improvements, and am already running an EJK (which does not have settings provided for the Black Widow on their website, not that I have looked much yet - does have R-77 settings), but simply looking for a better look and sound.

 

What say you , the assembled masses - which would you choose (or have already chosen?) if only in the market for better sound and looks, and not wanting to break the bank?  As always, thanks in advance!

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mossrider
Just now, zooman72 said:

Ok, after spending way too much time reading through all of the forum posts in this subforum (and other locations), plus watching a bunch of Youtube videos on both, I am up against it - which one to choose?  I was initially looking at the Ixil LX3, and then the Ebay "Chinese special" (i.e. Anodizing Racing), but after further consideration, it is down to these two.  They are approximately $100 apart (~$560 for the Yoshimura and ~$460 for the Black Widow, both via Ebay), and I plan on running both with the db-reducing inserts.  The Black Widow comes with a carbon fiber can, that sweet blue tip, and is 230mm in length, plus is $100 cheaper.  The Yoshimura has a stainless can (w/ c.f. tip) that may be a bit longer (but can't find the length?) with a trapezoidal shape (more baffle volume?), which I assume would be a bit quieter, and cost $100 more.  Both look good in their own way, and anything looks better than the factory setup!  I am not looking for power or torque improvements, and am already running an EJK (which does not have settings provided for the Black Widow on their website, not that I have looked much yet - does have R-77 settings), but simply looking for a better look and sound.

 

What say you , the assembled masses - which would you choose (or have already chosen?) if only in the market for better sound and looks, and not wanting to break the bank?  As always, thanks in advance!

Yosh.

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zooman72
4 minutes ago, mossrider said:

Yosh.

Ha! - nice and simple (or direct) - care to expound as to why?

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mossrider
Just now, zooman72 said:

Ha! - nice and simple (or direct) - care to expound as to why?

I've had a ton of experience with it,

It's the best sounding (admittedly subjective),

They hold up great,

I've had exposure to many different manufactures trackside so see how they handle use, abuse, crashing, sound, etc,

Their service is second to none (send the can in for repair after crash, repack when needed, or upgrade to carbon etc), 

Oh, and that sound.

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norcal616

Yoshi... Decent price with great durability and above avg power gains when tuned...

 

I'm partial to the "WORKS FINISH"coating Yoshi offers nowadays... It start out with this odd blue hue that turns into a golden bronze color and the fact it's basically enamel coating that helps protect the exhaust pipe from showing its age 😁...

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2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW
 

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zooman72
2 hours ago, mossrider said:

I've had a ton of experience with it,

It's the best sounding (admittedly subjective),

They hold up great,

I've had exposure to many different manufactures trackside so see how they handle use, abuse, crashing, sound, etc,

Their service is second to none (send the can in for repair after crash, repack when needed, or upgrade to carbon etc), 

Oh, and that sound.

Fair enough - customer service is tilted to Yoshimura with a presence in the U.S. (none for Black widow it appears) - appreciate the thoughtful response!

 

1 hour ago, norcal616 said:

Yoshi... Decent price with great durability and above avg power gains when tuned...

 

I'm partial to the "WORKS FINISH"coating Yoshi offers nowadays... It start out with this odd blue hue that turns into a golden bronze color and the fact it's basically enamel coating that helps protect the exhaust pipe from showing its age 😁...

Interesting, as I was wondering about that "Works" finish myself, although I thought I read that it was not a coating, but a "media blast finish" that gives the stainless steel a matte finish - thanks for responding!

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norcal616
4 minutes ago, zooman72 said:

Interesting, as I was wondering about that "Works" finish myself, although I thought I read that it was not a coating, but a "media blast finish" that gives the stainless steel a matte finish - thanks for responding!

That more of a description of the feel/look of the coating... 

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2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW
 

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zooman72
10 minutes ago, norcal616 said:

That more of a description of the feel/look of the coating... 

OK, thanks, and will have to see what is available, as price appears to be the same between the "works" finish and the polished finish...

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zooman72

Just to update, went with a Black Widow SL20R (stainless 200mm muffler/ silencer with large diameter blue tip) for $400 shipped via Ebay (3 days from Britain to Eastern U.S.!), and I love it!  Went on easily, looks great (blue tip matches my wheels), and sounds amazing w/ DB reducer left in.  Have the Dobeck EJK, initially set-up for stock exhaust w/ snorkel removed and O2 sensor disconnected, and it runs perfectly w/ no backfiring.  Went w/ the Black Widow for the looks and cost, but the sound is also just perfect for what I wanted.

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Wintersdark

I've got the 230mm version, also with the carbon fiber body and blue tip.  It's beautiful, and the system looks and sounds awesome.  Sadly, it's too loud for my neighborhood, so I'm gonna need to figure something out to make it quieter.  

 

But damn it's a sexy exhaust.

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zooman72
On 6/2/2019 at 3:12 PM, Wintersdark said:

I've got the 230mm version, also with the carbon fiber body and blue tip.  It's beautiful, and the system looks and sounds awesome.  Sadly, it's too loud for my neighborhood, so I'm gonna need to figure something out to make it quieter.  

 

But damn it's a sexy exhaust.

Still too loud even with the DB reducer in?

I found mine to be just right with the insert in place - not just a bit louder than the stock exhaust, but better sounding (more lower frequencies).  It is definitely not as loud as my Stryker with V&H Twin Slash Staggered exhaust.

You are correct about the look though, at least those with the large tip...

 

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Wintersdark
2 hours ago, zooman72 said:

Still too loud even with the DB reducer in?

I found mine to be just right with the insert in place - not just a bit louder than the stock exhaust, but better sounding (more lower frequencies).  It is definitely not as loud as my Stryker with V&H Twin Slash Staggered exhaust.

You are correct about the look though, at least those with the large tip...

 

Yeah, the ones without the big tip look a little meh to me.  The carbon fiber tip looks decent but "generic aftermarket", 

I hooligan a lot, spend a lot of time at WOT.  It's LOUD then.  To be fair though, I'm not a loud exhaust guy by nature - volume played no part in my decision.  Sound did, of course, but not volume.

My fear is the volume is going to get me speeding tickets because I'll be noticed earlier :)

It sounds so damn good with the baffle out, but I tried highway speed that way and it actually hurt.

 

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zooman72
22 hours ago, Wintersdark said:

Yeah, the ones without the big tip look a little meh to me.  The carbon fiber tip looks decent but "generic aftermarket", 

I hooligan a lot, spend a lot of time at WOT.  It's LOUD then.  To be fair though, I'm not a loud exhaust guy by nature - volume played no part in my decision.  Sound did, of course, but not volume.

My fear is the volume is going to get me speeding tickets because I'll be noticed earlier :)

It sounds so damn good with the baffle out, but I tried highway speed that way and it actually hurt.

 

Yeah, that is exactly my thought - the other tips just don't cut it.

At 47, I am too old to "hooligan", and I did pay attention to volume, hence my interest in sound quality with the baffle when I was researching.  After 30 years on motorcycles, I did not want to make my hearing worse, nor be an asshat to my neighbors.  Also, my youngest son is 7, and I sometimes leave for work before he gets up for school, and so wanted to keep the peace with the wife!

I live in Western NY, with plenty of other very loud Harleys flying about, so the only thing that may lead to speeding tickets is my wrist!

I was tempted to try it without the baffle, but after living with it in for some time now, I am perfectly content, except for when it (the baffle) rattles a little bit on startup - may have to see if I can tighten it some.....

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Wintersdark
11 minutes ago, zooman72 said:

Yeah, that is exactly my thought - the other tips just don't cut it.

At 47, I am too old to "hooligan", and I did pay attention to volume, hence my interest in sound quality with the baffle when I was researching.  After 30 years on motorcycles, I did not want to make my hearing worse, nor be an asshat to my neighbors.  Also, my youngest son is 7, and I sometimes leave for work before he gets up for school, and so wanted to keep the peace with the wife!

I live in Western NY, with plenty of other very loud Harleys flying about, so the only thing that may lead to speeding tickets is my wrist!

I was tempted to try it without the baffle, but after living with it in for some time now, I am perfectly content, except for when it (the baffle) rattles a little bit on startup - may have to see if I can tighten it some.....

Oh, by "volume played no part" I meant more "I didn't want excessively loud"; usually people look at volume in a "more is better" sense.  I actually liked how quiet the stock exhaust was, though I didn't mind (reasonably) louder.  All the videos of this exhaust, though, suffer the same problem (and that includes ones I've made) - you can't really capture exhaust volume in a video.  More people need to rate/review exhausts with a dB meter.  I honestly expected it to be quieter than it is.

I hear yeah for the situation, though.  I do rotating shift work myself, so I come and go at all hours, and also have a couple young kids (6 and 8 - I'm of a similar age, so thumbs up for surviving young children in your 40's; it's rough!) who I really must not wake when leaving/arriving home at 3am.   

I'm getting used to it, and to be fair it's no louder than the Harley's about.  It sure sounds damn loud to me after a year with the stock exhaust.  It's growing on me quickly, though, so I figure I'm gonna hold on to it.  I like the look a great deal more than the other options, and changing would cost me a lot too.  Just flashed the bike with a 2WDW tune as well, and... well, it's fun :)  

And sure, it's your wrist that gets you the speeding tickets, but like I said I'm a dumbass and tend to speed way too much.  With the quiet exhaust, nobody *noticed* me speeding - I've lost that protection.  Now I'm as loud as the Harley bros, but way faster.  I definitely notice a difference in other people's awareness of me though.  Far fewer people changing lanes into me and whatnot, so there's that.  

With regards to the baffle: I've noticed it's a bit narrower than the exhaust opening and this seems to allow a bit of twisting - that may be causing the rattle for you.  I've been contemplating putting a small bead of copper RTV around the outside of the baffle/inside of the muffler to prevent that myself. 

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Beemer
19 hours ago, Wintersdark said:

Oh, by "volume played no part" I meant more "I didn't want excessively loud"; usually people look at volume in a "more is better" sense.  I actually liked how quiet the stock exhaust was, though I didn't mind (reasonably) louder.  All the videos of this exhaust, though, suffer the same problem (and that includes ones I've made) - you can't really capture exhaust volume in a video.  More people need to rate/review exhausts with a dB meter.  I honestly expected it to be quieter than it is.

I hear yeah for the situation, though.  I do rotating shift work myself, so I come and go at all hours, and also have a couple young kids (6 and 8 - I'm of a similar age, so thumbs up for surviving young children in your 40's; it's rough!) who I really must not wake when leaving/arriving home at 3am.   

I'm getting used to it, and to be fair it's no louder than the Harley's about.  It sure sounds damn loud to me after a year with the stock exhaust.  It's growing on me quickly, though, so I figure I'm gonna hold on to it.  I like the look a great deal more than the other options, and changing would cost me a lot too.  Just flashed the bike with a 2WDW tune as well, and... well, it's fun :)  

And sure, it's your wrist that gets you the speeding tickets, but like I said I'm a dumbass and tend to speed way too much.  With the quiet exhaust, nobody *noticed* me speeding - I've lost that protection.  Now I'm as loud as the Harley bros, but way faster.  I definitely notice a difference in other people's awareness of me though.  Far fewer people changing lanes into me and whatnot, so there's that.  

With regards to the baffle: I've noticed it's a bit narrower than the exhaust opening and this seems to allow a bit of twisting - that may be causing the rattle for you.  I've been contemplating putting a small bead of copper RTV around the outside of the baffle/inside of the muffler to prevent that myself. 

I have an Akra carbon fiber pipe that makes that same rattling sound on decel and I never knew exactly what was causing it so maybe that's the cause with my pipe, also, so thanks! As far as a loud pipe goes this is my suggestion. With my db killer in it's still a little loud but not nearly as obnoxiously loud as many Harley's. Still, to avoid upsetting the neighbors (immediate neighbors within six or so houses from mine anyway) I don't rev my bike when I start it and I barely give it any gas to get it rolling in 1st gear. No cars coming I just putt along in 1st past the first couple neighbors giving it no throttle what so ever and let it warm up a little for that time.

After the first couple houses is when I start giving it any throttle. Just a little gas in each gear (I'm barely cracking the throttle) and I only take it up to between 3 and 4k rpm and then I shift and slowly accelerate up to the same rpm and shift again. It has the torque to pull so it's no problem doing that. I'm right at 200 lbs. If you're heavier you may have to let it wind out a little more in each gear.

On another note, I see it like this. I try to be considerate but I don't worry too much about what the neighbors have to say because if I have to put up with neighbors lawn mowers, weed whackers and leaf blowers blasting away for 30 minutes or more then they can put up with hearing my bike for just a mere few seconds when I go past their house. I don't think that's asking too much. 😉

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Beemer

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Wintersdark
15 minutes ago, Beemer said:

I have an Akra carbon fiber pipe that makes that same rattling sound on decel and I never knew exactly what was causing it so maybe that's the cause with my pipe, also, so thanks! As far as a loud pipe goes this is my suggestion. With my db killer in it's still a little loud but not nearly as obnoxiously loud as many Harley's. Still, to avoid upsetting the neighbors (immediate neighbors within six or so houses from mine anyway) I don't rev my bike when I start it and I barely give it any gas to get it rolling in 1st gear. No cars coming I just putt along in 1st past the first couple neighbors giving it no throttle what so ever and let it warm up a little for that time.

After the first couple houses is when I start giving it any throttle. Just a little gas in each gear (I'm barely cracking the throttle) and I only take it up to between 3 and 4k rpm and then I shift and slowly accelerate up to the same rpm and shift again. It has the torque to pull so it's no problem doing that. I'm right at 200 lbs. If you're heavier you may have to let it wind out a little more in each gear.

On another note, I see it like this. I try to be considerate but I don't worry too much about what the neighbors have to say because if I have to put up with neighbors lawn mowers, weed whackers and leaf blowers blasting away for 30 minutes or more then they can put up with hearing my bike for just a mere few seconds when I go past their house. I don't think that's asking too much. <img src=">

Yup, that's my approach now.  My first couple blocks are done at zero/virtually zero throttle, then very gentle throttle till I'm off side streets.  It's probably best for me to hooligan less on the local streets anyways :)

I'm a 300lb guy, and even there it'll pull me along with practically no throttle.  This is a surprisingly great bike for a big guy, despite being pretty small.  My XJ would have stalled/struggled to pull me along at idle.

Like I said elsewhere though, the lawnmower argument doesn't work as well when you come and go around 2-4am.

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Beemer

I missed that 3 am part so yeah, doesn't work there. I think you'll be safe if off the throttle. You can do a test and park at the edge of the street with it running and go inside to your own bedroom, door closed, and listen to better gauge how loud it actually is to someone else. I would bet that if you can hear it, it will be low and muffled. Give it a try so you know for sure and put your worries to rest.

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Beemer

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Wintersdark
16 hours ago, Beemer said:

I missed that 3 am part so yeah, doesn't work there. I think you'll be safe if off the throttle. You can do a test and park at the edge of the street with it running and go inside to your own bedroom, door closed, and listen to better gauge how loud it actually is to someone else. I would bet that if you can hear it, it will be low and muffled. Give it a try so you know for sure and put your worries to rest.

This was really good advice, and I feel kind of dumb for not thinking of it.  I feel a lot better now; it's certainly audible but it's not a big deal.  People can deal with that for 10 seconds when I leave.  

This is good, overall, because I really like what the exhaust looks and sounds like and was getting increasingly conflicted about swapping it out.

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Wintersdark

An addendum: I feel the @2wheeldynoworks tune quieted it a bit.  I'm not really sure how that works, and I'd just assumed I was getting used to it , but I've had other people ask if I changed something because it seems quieter.  

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zooman72
On 6/11/2019 at 5:24 AM, Wintersdark said:

An addendum: I feel the @2wheeldynoworks tune quieted it a bit.  I'm not really sure how that works, and I'd just assumed I was getting used to it , but I've had other people ask if I changed something because it seems quieter.  

Yeah, my Stryker with the V&H's exhaust quieted a bit too when I got it flashed, plus the annoying backfire was gone.

I too am considerate with the neighbors, barely cracking the throttle to leave in the morning, but I just wish some of them would reciprocate by not cutting their grass at 7 or 8 am on a Saturday!!!

Now, off to mess with the baffle, which to be honest only rattles for a few seconds until it heats up...

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