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Ram-Air Intake


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2 minutes ago, sansnombre said:

@mossrider Curious what you do for a living, my friend? Engineer, per chance? Motorcycling is your hobby or day job?

 

I enjoy seeing/reading your posts. FWIW.

Life long hobby. I'm just an enthusiast. I'm retired and work pt doing whatever.

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On 2/25/2019 at 4:11 PM, mossrider said:

IMG_20190225_144825.thumb.jpg.b0c93be7a3b694187bfc7ba986ef9d75.jpg

Out of curiosity, what did you do with the ignition? and what preload adjusters do you have? 

I've seen ignition bypass systems (I think thats what its called) for R6 and such, but I haven't come across any for the FZ-07.

Excuse my curiosity, I know its off topic, but the wait is killing me to see the results of this RAM-AIR dyno'd.

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Just now, fzar said:

Out of curiosity, what did you do with the ignition? and what preload adjusters do you have? 

I've seen ignition bypass systems (I think thats what its called) for R6 and such, but I haven't come across any for the FZ-07.

Excuse my curiosity, I know its off topic, but the wait is killing me to see the results of this RAM-AIR dyno'd.

That's exactly what it is, an ignition bypass by Woodcraft. The kill switch now performs all the operations the key once did. 

The forks have Andriani cartridges in them. The preload adjusters are integral.

As for the dyno work you'll just have to be patient. 

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2 hours ago, mossrider said:

 

As for the dyno work you'll just have to be patient. 

Nooooo

 

Patience is overrated and dynos are forever

ATGATT... ATTATT, two acronyms I live by.
 

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  • 4 weeks later...

hello guys I just read the thread.
I've been thinking about RAM air for my FZR 400 RR SP a few years ago as well.
My calculations brought me to the same result, apart from my lower speed 200 km/h (125 ml/h)
so expecting app 2% increasing.  I have build it, even if it's only the cold air.
Now for my race MT (FZ), some thouths again, 😉
so I am very expectant, about your results on dyno.
Patience is not my strength, waiting hard for the results 🤣🤣🤣

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On 3/1/2019 at 9:54 PM, sorkyah said:

Patience is overrated and dynos are forever

I tentatively have Wednesday-Thursday this week blocked out to do nothing but this project at the tuners. Providing he has done the same we should have a bike load of data by next weekend. 

On 3/28/2019 at 8:28 AM, enduro250 said:

Patience is not my strength, waiting hard for the results 

😎

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So here's some preliminary data. We made a dozen or so runs today. First run was our ram air project on static air. We messed with air/fuel and ended with a decent pull. Then we added our highly technical ram air wind tunnel system and were pleasantly surprised to see it gain just shy of 2hp when we finished putzing w/it. Validation, nice! Blue and red traces bellow.

But 

Next we tried a stock Hord Power intake. Another hp or 2 bump. Stronger midrange and tapered off at high rpm. Green trace.

Then we put my old modified stock airbox on. Big swell in the curve above 7000 with the strongest top end. This option has the shortest intake runners of the three we checked today. Yellow trace.

The Hord and the ram air share the same intake runners and mounting plate and are longer than my box from last year.

IMG_20190403_174308.thumb.jpg.d94d85c822af89bfcaa4094cea06b4c6.jpg

We were really surprised to see this play out this way. I'm guessing we need shorter intake runners on the ram air and the inner dimensions (diameter) of the Hord bells is smaller than my modified runners so may be restricting my built motors breathing some?

Back out to the shop. Stay tuned.

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Any pix of your old, modified airbox? Curious what your mods were, esp compared to the other runs here. Was it enclosed and modified in other ways (runners), or was it opened up with walls removed/relieved as well as the shorter runners?

This is great stuff. Thanks.

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1 hour ago, sansnombre said:

Any pix of your old, modified airbox? Curious what your mods were, esp compared to the other runs here. Was it enclosed and modified in other ways (runners), or was it opened up with walls removed/relieved as well as the shorter runners?

This is great stuff. Thanks.

Funny thing, the box does not photograph well due to technical considerations and the dern rulebook. There are some features that are best not recorded. 😏  Basically hogged out and shortened intake runners, no box cover, no filter.

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You know, Hord was playing with no cover/filter in an otherwise stock airbox and got an amazing result with midrange power (I'm pretty sure it was without modified intake runners). But he commented about how sensitive this motor is to runner length. I've always wanted that result for street rides, but didn't want to go without a filter. I designed an outside filter and cover but never got it on the dyno to see what it would do.

I did some computer simulation on this airbox as well, and saw that the general shape and size is not bad at all and actually is designed pretty well to shape and scavenge the flow. The fact that your box did so well seems to underscore that observation.

I think it interesting that your mods bettered the Hord box and the ram-air. At 8k, that's a significant increase in HP. Again, nice job.

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11 minutes ago, sansnombre said:

You know, Hord was playing with no cover/filter in an otherwise stock airbox and got an amazing result with midrange power (I'm pretty sure it was without modified intake runners). But he commented about how sensitive this motor is to runner length. I've always wanted that result for street rides, but didn't want to go without a filter. I designed an outside filter and cover but never got it on the dyno to see what it would do.

I did some computer simulation on this airbox as well, and saw that the general shape and size is not bad at all and actually is designed pretty well to shape and scavenge the flow. The fact that your box did so well seems to underscore that observation.

I think it interesting that your mods bettered the Hord box and the ram-air. At 8k, that's a significant increase in HP. Again, nice job.

Right? It's interesting for sure. Keep in mind JD was experimenting with an eye toward a bolt-on streetable intake as a saleable performance upgrade, not for a straight racing application. Everytime I try to improve the wheel I find Yamaha has been there, done that. Kudos to Yamahas engineers. 

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Not closing the book entirely on the ram air project but this year's test & tune budget is blown and we're running up against the clock for season opener. 🙁 I have more ideas I'd like to try at some point but fear this is a more complex problem than we (I) initially thought. I've learned a lot during this process so don't consider it a failure by any stretch. We were able to make the theory work, just not to a useful magnitude and I've got enough data to keep me busy in the bathroom for months. 

Now if I could find a place/way to hide a NO2 bottle & injector.....

 

Edited by mossrider
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14 minutes ago, mossrider said:

Now if I could find a place/way to hide a NO2 bottle & injector.....

Put the NO2 bottle in the "hump" on the back of your race...

2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW
 

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13 hours ago, mossrider said:

 

Now if I could find a place/way to hide a NO2 bottle & injector.....

 

In the air box? 

Purge valve directly on a co2 type cylinder, wireless trigger w/ enough battery for about 3-4 uses

Just don't get caught removing it

ATGATT... ATTATT, two acronyms I live by.
 

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Forgot to add a pic of the black ops ram air test facility. We got the biggest fan we could find to vacate the dyno room. A 4 footer, lol. Had to remove the door from the dyno room which normally vents out the side wall. Moved a lot of air. It actually had to be bolted down since it would take off across the floor and smash into everything, like firing up an old Pratt and Whitney indoors. And you are correct, no guards on either side. We used 2-240 volt blowers w/3 outlets to generate the airflow on the other end. I would guess we were only able to replicate around 110-120 mph? Still enough to see a difference tho.

IMG_20190409_221206.thumb.jpg.ca8a1dfa7ec213a3b0642c76ea2aeddb.jpg

Here's one going into to test chamber,

IMG_20190409_224107.thumb.jpg.fed042558a01e35dfcf7669546ace10f.jpg

 We tried.

Edited by mossrider
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This was a great read and "look forward to the next update" post.

Thanks for taking the time to write it up.

I was especially taken by the comparative dyno runs and seeing the "dremelled box with no filter" as the winner in overall HP! There's been lots of talk on this forum over the years about tuning, backpressure, free-flow, tuned intake, siphon-effect, and what-does-what and what's nonsense, but that info really blows it up.

Edited by sansnombre
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Noice

Need more though

 

15 hours ago, mossrider said:

Forgot to add a pic of the black ops ram air test facility. We got the biggest fan we could find to vacate the dyno room. A 4 footer, lol. Had to remove the door from the dyno room which normally vents out the side wall. Moved a lot of air. It actually had to be bolted down since it would take off across the floor and smash into everything, like firing up an old Pratt and Whitney indoors. And you are correct, no guards on either side. We used 2-240 volt blowers w/3 outlets to generate the airflow on the other end. I would guess we were only able to replicate around 110-120 mph? Still enough to see a difference tho.

 

Here's one going into to test chamber,

 

 We tried.

 

ATGATT... ATTATT, two acronyms I live by.
 

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15 minutes ago, mossrider said:

Turn up your sound...

https://youtu.be/u7i5YtC9z5g

Send money, more shenanigans <img src="> 

That's not helping...... 

 

ATGATT... ATTATT, two acronyms I live by.
 

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19 hours ago, sorkyah said:

That's not helping...... 

 

Neither is the 18" of snow falling as I type, just never ends.

They cancelled today's state wide tornado drill due to this blizzard occurring during our annual spring flood. (for real)

My gas this year costs $15.73/gal. delivered or $12/gal trackside. 😕

IMG_20190411_152519.thumb.jpg.a037ac998e9908eae593e6697adb9ad2.jpg

Stay true to yer course, just remember to pull on both oars.

IMG_20190210_193407.thumb.jpg.0131aad273e7b087d26320d70a7485a3.jpg

First call to grid...

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25 minutes ago, mossrider said:

Neither is the 18" of snow falling as I type, just never ends.

They cancelled today's state wide tornado drill due to this blizzard occurring during our annual spring flood. (for real)

My gas this year costs $15.73/gal. delivered or $12/gal trackside. <img src=">

 

Stay true to yer course, just remember to pull on both oars.

 

First call to grid...

If only you could toss some snow tracks on and race that way

ATGATT... ATTATT, two acronyms I live by.
 

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  • 2 weeks later...
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Cold-air system done, for now.  :)  Now I have to make time to get to the track.

0421191826.jpg

0421191826a.jpg

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Craig Mapstone
Upstate New York

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2 hours ago, blackout said:

Cold-air system done, for now.  :)  Now I have to make time to get to the track.

How's she run out with it all hooked up? Bet it pulls nicely. 

Diggity.

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16 hours ago, mossrider said:

How's she run out with it all hooked up? Bet it pulls nicely. 

Diggity.

Pulls strong, but I haven't ridden in months, so hard to compare.

When it gets hot out, I can see how it performs.  Last year I noticed my tune was off a bit when above 85 degrees outside.

I want to see if I can fab a carbon fiber inlet tube instead of the flex hose.  I want to be like the cool kids.  :)

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Craig Mapstone
Upstate New York

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