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dylanbnr32

CEL after exhaust and PCFC change - P2195 code

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dylanbnr32

Hello everyone,

 

My MT07 is getting a P2195 code (detecting the O2 sensor signal stuck lean for bank 1 sensor 1)  after installing my new Akra titanium exhaust and power commander fuel controller.  Also getting quite a bit of popping, mainly burbles in a closed throttle scenario, but sometimes I get some pretty loud pops as well.

It currently has a K&N filter with the stock snorkel removed, the PCFC, as well as the Akra titanium exhaust with the dB killer still inserted.

From what I can gather online it means that the engine has tried to lean out a rich condition and failed. If I clear the code with my OBDII scanner, sometimes it comes back in a short while (under 50kms), sometimes it doesn't come back for 500+kms). I used some soapy water to check for exhaust leaks at the junctions but currently there are no leak at the O2 sensor or the rest of the pipes.

I have tried several maps off of the power commander website, including the bone stock map, stock exhaust + snorkel removed, stock exhaust + DNA intake + lid, Akra exhaust + DNA + lid, but the CEL will illuminate regardless of which map I have it set to.

Looking for advice - is it normal for the Akra exhaust to burble and pop even after adding a PCFC? Is it normal to throw a P2195 code with an aftermarket exhaust on these bikes? If not, where should I look to resolve the issue? 

 

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CarGuy7a

What code is displayed on the dash unit? Try removing the O2 sensor from the bike completely and plug the bung in the exhaust and see what result you get. Alot of us here run without an O2 sensor (myself included) and don't get any codes. It may be possible your O2 sensor took a crap. Disconnecting the O2 sensor will make the bike run richer so it will not hurt your bike to run without it.

 

Also did the PCFC come with a O2 optimizer box? If it did remove that as well when you remove the O2 sensor.

Edited by CarGuy7a

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dylanbnr32
On 12/9/2018 at 8:56 AM, CarGuy7a said:

What code is displayed on the dash unit? Try removing the O2 sensor from the bike completely and plug the bung in the exhaust and see what result you get. Alot of us here run without an O2 sensor (myself included) and don't get any codes. It may be possible your O2 sensor took a crap. Disconnecting the O2 sensor will make the bike run richer so it will not hurt your bike to run without it.

 

Also did the PCFC come with a O2 optimizer box? If it did remove that as well when you remove the O2 sensor.

Unfortunately no code on the dash, can only retrieve a code when I use the diagnostics cable. The code is P2195, detecting that the O2 sensor signal is stuck lean.

 

I tried removing and plugging the O2 sensor but it immediately threw an O2 sensor code and would not allow itself to be reset. I bought an O2 sensor eliminator kit (dummy connector and O2 bung) which should arrive shortly but I'm a bit concerned as to why the code is appearing in the first place since I have not seen others with this problem while using a fuel controller and aftermarket exhaust. 

Edited by dylanbnr32

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Beemer

I don't know about that code with a Power Commander and most people seem to get the flash tune from 2wheeldynoworks. As for the slight burbling and popping, that is common with a high performance exhaust but if you've taken the baffle out that can allow for more air to rush inside the pipe during decal vs a baffle that can slow it and possibly decrease the popping. If that doesn't work you can try decreasing the amount of fuel your engine is getting, it's probably running a little rich.


Beemer

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CarGuy7a

If you're only getting the code on the scanner and not on your dash I wouldn't worry about it and ride on. It's most likely the ECU noticing that something is different than what it is telling the bike to do which is the fuel controller modifying the signals to make it run richer for your aftermarket parts. Heck mine prob has the same code who knows I've never hooked anything up to see.

 

I wouldn't run the dummy O2 plug. It will trick the ecu into thinking the O2 is taking readings which is forcing closed loop scenario all the time. You don't want that because the closed loop map is extremely lean for light load scenarios such as cruising and constant throttle. Open loop the sensor is pretty much dead and not reading anything and the bike runs off a pre set map in the ECU for heavy load and full throttle ranges. I run without a stock O2 on the bike to force the ECU into open loop all the time so my PCV with the Auto tune can control the whole fueling range. I monitor this with the POD300 data logger. When the ECU goes into closed loop, the PCV or a fuel controller does nothing to fueling whatsoever because the ECU is preset to target a 14.7AFR when the O2 is taking readings. The only way to change closed loop tuning is an ECU tune or modifying the O2 sensors signal which is what the Power commander's O2 optimizer box does. It modifies the signal to change the targeted 14.7AFR to like 14.2 or something a tad richer.

 

Now for the decel popping. I'm not sure if you can modify the maps in the PCFC or not but in the 0% throttle range, add fuel trim from 2000RPM all the way to red line. I have 5 fuel trim added in that range and it greatly reduced the loud popping on deceleration.

Edited by CarGuy7a

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dylanbnr32
On 12/15/2018 at 7:54 AM, CarGuy7a said:

If you're only getting the code on the scanner and not on your dash I wouldn't worry about it and ride on. It's most likely the ECU noticing that something is different than what it is telling the bike to do which is the fuel controller modifying the signals to make it run richer for your aftermarket parts. Heck mine prob has the same code who knows I've never hooked anything up to see.

 

I wouldn't run the dummy O2 plug. It will trick the ecu into thinking the O2 is taking readings which is forcing closed loop scenario all the time. You don't want that because the closed loop map is extremely lean for light load scenarios such as cruising and constant throttle. Open loop the sensor is pretty much dead and not reading anything and the bike runs off a pre set map in the ECU for heavy load and full throttle ranges. I run without a stock O2 on the bike to force the ECU into open loop all the time so my PCV with the Auto tune can control the whole fueling range. I monitor this with the POD300 data logger. When the ECU goes into closed loop, the PCV or a fuel controller does nothing to fueling whatsoever because the ECU is preset to target a 14.7AFR when the O2 is taking readings. The only way to change closed loop tuning is an ECU tune or modifying the O2 sensors signal which is what the Power commander's O2 optimizer box does. It modifies the signal to change the targeted 14.7AFR to like 14.2 or something a tad richer.

 

Now for the decel popping. I'm not sure if you can modify the maps in the PCFC or not but in the 0% throttle range, add fuel trim from 2000RPM all the way to red line. I have 5 fuel trim added in that range and it greatly reduced the loud popping on deceleration.

Thanks for the feedback! I'm curious - when you removed the O2 sensor, is your amber engine light still illuminated? When I remove the O2 sensor, the amber engine light will illuminate but it will not trip any code on the dash (only if I read it with an OBDII scanner tool).

Regarding the O2 sensor eliminators I've heard the opposite information! I've read that it essentially disables the closed loop mode by sending a false signal to the ECU, tricking it into thinking that it's running at 14.7:1 and therefore stops it from trying to lean out or richen the air/fuel mixture, forcing the ECU to use its installed fuel map (or in my case the PCFC fuel map). If you have any information or articles that disprove this, I would highly appreciate it! Here is a link from the power commander site regarding their O2 sensor eliminator:

http://www.powercommander.com/downloads/211/install/optimizer/eng76423007.01.pdf

"Many of today’s bikes now come standard with an oxygen sensor(s) in the exhaust system. The ECU is designed to read the Oxygen Sensor under certain conditions and temporarily change the air/fuel ratio. The closed loop circuit has a very limited operating range, which is only in effect while holding a steady speed. For example, on some models if you are above 2250 rpm and under 30% throttle position, the stock system (with or without the Power Commander) will gradually and temporarily lean out the air fuel ratio in an attempt to achieve an air/fuel ratio of 14.7:1 (stoichiometric). The Oxygen sensor(s) can be disconnected but this will trip the F.I. dash warning light. By installing the Dynojet Oxygen Sensor eliminator, the closed loop system is disabled and the F.I. light functions correctly"

Edited by dylanbnr32

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CarGuy7a

When I removed my stock O2 I never got a CEL light illumination at all.

 

This video towards the end explains what running without a O2 can let you achieve with the PCV and autotune like what I'm running. Even though he's working on a VFR800 pretty much all stock O2's are the same. He explains how when the ECU reads a zero voltage from the O2 it defaults to the richest setting for a few seconds the settles at a mid range map in the ECU at all times while the bike is running. So essentially it makes the ECU run in one constant map that you can then use the Autotune to control the entire fueling range. There may be a difference in the way your PCFC is handling things compared to the PCV and that may be why your getting the CEL.

 

Here's a link to the service manual talking about the ECU self diagnostic mode. Granted it's for a 2014 model it's pretty much the same as my 2016 service manual. If you skip to page 454, it shows the fault code for the O2 sensor being disconnected but it also shows that it will not show a diagnostic code on the dash or illuminate a meter display which makes your case an odd one because with mine disconnected I get no codes or lights and you are getting it either way which makes me think it's another issue entirely like maybe a faulty O2 and it just keeps throwing the code no matter what. You could test your O2 like he did in the video and see what result you get. Another test you could do is remove the PCFC entirely and run the exhaust with the baffle in to simulate a stock exhaust and see what happens. I think the only way you can clear the codes on this bike is with the expensive yamaha diagnostic tool like in the manual. I don't think a simple scan tool will do it. I may be wrong though I've never done it. I've heard that the codes can only be permanently deleted by the dealer with this tool because they are stored in the ECU's memory and a normal scan tool can't access it.

 

Edited by CarGuy7a

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dylanbnr32
6 hours ago, CarGuy7a said:

When I removed my stock O2 I never got a CEL light illumination at all.

 

This video towards the end explains what running without a O2 can let you achieve with the PCV and autotune like what I'm running. Even though he's working on a VFR800 pretty much all stock O2's are the same. He explains how when the ECU reads a zero voltage from the O2 it defaults to the richest setting for a few seconds the settles at a mid range map in the ECU at all times while the bike is running. So essentially it makes the ECU run in one constant map that you can then use the Autotune to control the entire fueling range. There may be a difference in the way your PCFC is handling things compared to the PCV and that may be why your getting the CEL.

 

Here's a link to the service manual talking about the ECU self diagnostic mode. Granted it's for a 2014 model it's pretty much the same as my 2016 service manual. If you skip to page 454, it shows the fault code for the O2 sensor being disconnected but it also shows that it will not show a diagnostic code on the dash or illuminate a meter display which makes your case an odd one because with mine disconnected I get no codes or lights and you are getting it either way which makes me think it's another issue entirely like maybe a faulty O2 and it just keeps throwing the code no matter what. You could test your O2 like he did in the video and see what result you get. Another test you could do is remove the PCFC entirely and run the exhaust with the baffle in to simulate a stock exhaust and see what happens. I think the only way you can clear the codes on this bike is with the expensive yamaha diagnostic tool like in the manual. I don't think a simple scan tool will do it. I may be wrong though I've never done it. I've heard that the codes can only be permanently deleted by the dealer with this tool because they are stored in the ECU's memory and a normal scan tool can't access it.

 

Thanks for the reply. It could be a matter of my bike's origin as well. I live in Taiwan and my bike is a Japanese domestic market import. There could potentially be stricter parameters for removing the O2 sensor with my model. 

I have access to a OBDII reader as well as a Yamaha diagnostic tool at my friend's shop. With the O2 removed it's a different code which cannot be reset or cleared, compared to the other P2195 code I am getting. The P2195 code can be cleared without issues and comes back every 50-100kms. My mechanic thinks it's a faulty O2 sensor. It's cleared even when I check it with the Yamaha diagnostic tool, and with my OBDII reader.

However, the removed O2 sensor CEL is another issue -  removing the O2 sensor and disconnecting it from the harness will illuminate my amber CEL and throw a non-resettable code (can't remember what it is at this point in time, I will have to try it again to see what code it is). No code on the dash, just a non-resettable one that can be seen with the Yamaha diagnostic tool or OBDII reader.

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CarGuy7a
16 hours ago, dylanbnr32 said:

Thanks for the reply. It could be a matter of my bike's origin as well. I live in Taiwan and my bike is a Japanese domestic market import. There could potentially be stricter parameters for removing the O2 sensor with my model. 

I have access to a OBDII reader as well as a Yamaha diagnostic tool at my friend's shop. With the O2 removed it's a different code which cannot be reset or cleared, compared to the other P2195 code I am getting. The P2195 code can be cleared without issues and comes back every 50-100kms. My mechanic thinks it's a faulty O2 sensor. It's cleared even when I check it with the Yamaha diagnostic tool, and with my OBDII reader.

However, the removed O2 sensor CEL is another issue -  removing the O2 sensor and disconnecting it from the harness will illuminate my amber CEL and throw a non-resettable code (can't remember what it is at this point in time, I will have to try it again to see what code it is). No code on the dash, just a non-resettable one that can be seen with the Yamaha diagnostic tool or OBDII reader.

That's a good possibility. I've read the Euro models have completely different ECU tuning compared to US etc.. so you're probably on to it there. In that case the eliminator plug may work for you. From what I read about those plugs I was under the impression that the resistor was across the voltage side of the O2 which from the video he says it's actually across the heater wires. If it were across the voltage side it would probably cause the bike to stay in closed loop mode but that's not the case.

 

You can test the O2 like he did in the video with a propane torch and multi meter to check it's function. I would assume that if you get jumpy voltages and not a smooth sweep up and down that's probably the culprit. If the eliminator plug you got solves the CEL and code issue, then I wouldn't worry about buying another stock O2 unless you wanted to run with it. The only downside to running without the stock O2 in your case (without running an autotune) is you may experience a big decrease in fuel economy while you are cruising as you won't have the autotune and wideband O2 to help you lean out that cruising range. You could run without it but I would suggest getting it dyno tuned to lean out that cruising range to get your fuel mileage back. The first week of riding with my stock O2 removed and autotune on, I blew through a whole tank in about 100 miles it was bad. But once I did some thinking and research, I realized I had my AFR values at 13.2 across the board so it was running pig rich while cruising. Once I figured out where my normal cruising range was, I leaned that range down to about 13.7AFR in the autotune tables and in reality it runs an average around 14AFR and my mileage came back big time.

 

I would be willing to bet my bike probably shows a code for not having the O2 as well I've just never hooked anything up to see. 

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dylanbnr32
6 minutes ago, CarGuy7a said:

That's a good possibility. I've read the Euro models have completely different ECU tuning compared to US etc.. so you're probably on to it there. In that case the eliminator plug may work for you. From what I read about those plugs I was under the impression that the resistor was across the voltage side of the O2 which from the video he says it's actually across the heater wires. If it were across the voltage side it would probably cause the bike to stay in closed loop mode but that's not the case.

 

You can test the O2 like he did in the video with a propane torch and multi meter to check it's function. I would assume that if you get jumpy voltages and not a smooth sweep up and down that's probably the culprit. If the eliminator plug you got solves the CEL and code issue, then I wouldn't worry about buying another stock O2 unless you wanted to run with it. The only downside to running without the stock O2 in your case (without running an autotune) is you may experience a big decrease in fuel economy while you are cruising as you won't have the autotune and wideband O2 to help you lean out that cruising range. You could run without it but I would suggest getting it dyno tuned to lean out that cruising range to get your fuel mileage back. The first week of riding with my stock O2 removed and autotune on, I blew through a whole tank in about 100 miles it was bad. But once I did some thinking and research, I realized I had my AFR values at 13.2 across the board so it was running pig rich while cruising. Once I figured out where my normal cruising range was, I leaned that range down to about 13.7AFR in the autotune tables and in reality it runs an average around 14AFR and my mileage came back big time.

 

I would be willing to bet my bike probably shows a code for not having the O2 as well I've just never hooked anything up to see. 

Cheers, I appreciate all the valuable feedback and will let you know how things go after installing the O2 eliminator. I'll hook up an AFR gauge to my bike and do some road tuning once I get rid of the CEL issue. Thanks!

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CarGuy7a

No problem. Keep us posted and let us know what fixes it. 👍

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