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Guest Leonardo

FZ07 Fuel line

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Guest Leonardo

I use my FZ07 for track days and I used 101 octane to fuel up.  Will my motor hold up with the fuel lines it has now or do I need to upgrade?  If so where and which do you guys recommend?

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mossrider
Just now, Guest Leonardo said:

I use my FZ07 for track days and I used 101 octane to fuel up.  Will my motor hold up with the fuel lines it has now or do I need to upgrade?  If so where and which do you guys recommend?

You're fine.

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Mad

I see no real reason to run very high octane  fuel on a stock bike .. but there isn’t a problem either.

I believe that stock fuel lines are ok until you start to use e85 .. that fantastic, puke smelling , shet is not really gentle on rubber fuel lines 

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Beemer

If your engine isn't pinging what's the benefit of running that high an octane? It's not creating more h.p. is it or is it?


Beemer

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RojoRacing

You want to run as low an octane as possible because that’s what every motor is disigned to use. What I mean by that is you motors ignition timing is tuned work with a certain level of combustability and by running higher octane you’re ruining that precise timing and gaining nothing for it. In fact you should be killing a tiny bit of fuel economy but for track use that doesn’t really matter. 

 

Back in the day of GP two strokes we found running higher then needed octane made the bike run hotter then when using the minimal octane.  I’m not sure the same is true in these lower performance four strokes. 

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RojoRacing

Oh and as far as the original question goes. High octane fuel won’t be any harsher on the hoses unless the increase in octane was gained through adding ethanol above 10% which would be rare for 100 octane gas from a track. Most race fuels gain octane through chemicals that are  inert to rubber used in motors. 

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mossrider
Just now, Beemer said:

If your engine isn't pinging what's the benefit of running that high an octane? It's not creating more h.p. is it or is it?

I just answered his question in my previous post so this wouldn't become an oil thread debacle but since you asked a legit question, here goes.

 

There is no benefit to running octane over what your engine is built to utilize. Generally you need higher compression, more agressive cams, higher rpm, more combustion heat etc to necessitate high octane fuel. Octane itself creates no more horsepower, it is merely the fuels resistance to preignition or knock. The amount of energy per pound (not gallon) of fuel or the BTU content does increase the power output (read nitro methane). Some race fuels do have a higher energy content and in conjunction with a higher octane rating, permits it's use in highly modified race engines.

 

MR-12, the fuel standard for racing, is 92.7 r+m/2 octane. Not all that high. My race motors for instance run just fine on 91 octane non/oxygenated pump gas. I use this because it readily available not for the octane but for it's shelf life due to lack of alcohol. By the same token mr12 does add 2-3 horsepower in my motor when dyno tuned for but creates a serious PITA because it is caustic to parts and hoses, very expensive ($27ish/gallon) and must be removed completely if the bike is going to sit more than a few days or more.  It may be worth it depending on your application/expectations. Race fuel generally burns cleaner and more efficiently however, I can post some pics later. 

 

In essence, higher octane fuel let's your motor make more power if it can utilize it fully. Merely burning it in a stock motor is a waste.

 

Sorry for the long winded reply.

 

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Mad

now I’m curious, does someone make alcohol proof fuel lines for the 07 ? 

 

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Beemer

@mossrider

I pretty much knew that stuff, I was playing dumb just to see what he would say in reply but hey, that was a good explanation on your part!


Beemer

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mossrider
6 hours ago, Mad said:

now I’m curious, does someone make alcohol proof fuel lines for the 07 ? 

 

Another interesting question.

 

My race partner is old school and runs store bought e85 in his first gen SV. I'm no expert on alcohol fuels but he seems to like it. It certainly appears to have pluses and minuses. He only buys what he intends to burn that race weekend and tests its purity at the pump with a small trest kit as e85 is hygroscopic. He burns about 1.5 times as much as he would gasoline since it contains less energy per pound than gas. He has enormous jets in his flat slide carbs and carries a metric ton of spare fuel system parts and hoses with him. He says it burns cooler, supports higher compression ratios, can sustain incredible advance #'s, contains large amounts of oxygen and provides a much cheaper alternative to expensive race gas in his highly modified engine. He does admit it rots his fuel lines, clogs filters, passages and orafices with a fine particulate residue of galvanic reaction due to its electrolic effects in the fuel system. It requires more maintanance and constant draining.

 

He says it makes more power easier than gas and is gentler on the motor doing it. Since we seem to wreck the same amount of stuff I think racing is simply a good way to recycle aluminum.

 

Judging from his spares kit, no, there are no 'alcohol proof fuel lines available', at least for his bike anyway.

 

Alcohol burning funny bike

37721607_325909881282436_2270629731994959872_o.thumb.jpg.ff64485a7e079b4fd74551e2291959b3.jpg

63 years young by the way

 

Edited by mossrider
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shinyribs

We used to run alcohol in some of our dragsters. What a horrible smell.  Not really for an octane or hp advantage, but due to the fact that we could run without a cooling system. Like mossrider said, it definitely burns cooler. hell, some of our throttle bodies would frost up after a run. Not only does  running without a cooling system reove a ton of weight, it's also a safety factor when you are driving a front engine rail. Won't go in to details on that due to  wanting to threadjack, but I think you can figure it out. 

 

Regardless, the alcohol wasn't corrosive to typical fuel lines. The only problem it ever gave us was horrible oil contamination/ dilution. Very common to change oil after just a handful of passes. I hated the stuff.

 

That said, "rubber" is a pretty generic term. One company's rubber fuel lines may be comprised of a different package of compounds than another, so it is possible that alcohol may damage one brand of fuel lines and not affect another. Also, alcohol, methanol and ethanol are not all the same things. Most high performance vehicles say they are running alcohol, or "alky", but are actually running methanol. Ethanol is what we see in our gasoline nowadays. They are all types of alcohol, but they are produced from different things. Ethanol carries more energy than methanol, but is also less toxic. That toxicity is why we get drunk when we drink ethanol. Ethanol is the intoxicating part of alcohol and its molecules are small enough to get in between you brain cells. That shorts out your neurotransmitters and screws with your head/motor functions.

 

All that said, don't sweat it. Some form of fuel may degrade a certain fuel line, but it won't dissolve it instantly. Run what ya got, and if you start having problems source fuel line from a different company and cross your fingers. Just don't drink the shet lol

Edited by shinyribs

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norcal616

might as well run nitro= choke out the competition 😁... I call it "mustard gas" as it clears out crowds when nitro dragsters set the clutch pack after a run...


2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW
 

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sorkyah
On 12/2/2018 at 3:05 AM, norcal616 said:

might as well run nitro= choke out the competition <img src=">... I call it "mustard gas" as it clears out crowds when nitro dragsters set the clutch pack after a run...

Love the smell of nitro

;)

 

As for the op's question. 

There are some manufacturers that make alcohol/ethanol/methanol  safe fuel lines but they are generally silicone based AN plumbs on custom or high performance builds

Nothing that will fit a stock pump. 

If you wanna spend the money, look at Earl's Plumbing based out of Los Angeles. They are top notch when it comes to the lines. But you will need to source a new pump and mount for the bottom side of the tank.


ATGATT... ATTATT, two acronyms I live by.
 

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