Thoughts on the new Nitron Cartridge For kits?

[Gixerspiderman]

[Evill_Ed]

 Don’t know anything about them, but the caps look cool

[Gixerspiderman]

12 hours ago, Evill_Ed said:

 Don’t know anything about them, but the caps look cool ">

Even the internals are all anodized check out their website, they're works of art and have special bypass valve for sudden eg potholes

[Fugitive]

On 4/2/2020 at 6:02 AM, Gixerspiderman said:

Hello from Blightly all, and although I know this is an old post, I thought I would chip in. In October 2018 I persuaded/nagged the very clever head honcho of the bike dept at Nitron into finishing their tvt cartridge kit and using my bike as the final development mule. They had previously dismantled another set of forks in 2014 but not progressed. Unfortunately the fork bottoms do require machining out to fit their 22mm cartridge kit. I  ordered an R3 shock with HPA at the same time. When I collected the bike the shock wasn't fitted, and the first thing to say is that DON'T  run them with a standard shock. The soggy stock rear and firm front meant no weight on front wheel and instant lock up even on a hot day.  Once I'd fitted shock and set static sag (added preload rear,wound right off front) I took it out and found the front too stiff on compression and rear perfect from the box. I've wound all the front compression off and even pulling stoppies I still have unused travel. So on their advice I am removing 5ml fork oil at a time to soften off the last part of the stroke,but covid19 means we're all on lockdown . I've been riding for 20 years, did more trackdays than I can possibly remember and dabbled in club racing for a few years. I've run ktech and ohlins on race bikes and ohlins on road bikes. I'm no Rossi by any stretch but I have been around for a while. What I can say is that my suspension is almost perfect for fast road/track use, holds a line nicely and isn't bad over bumps. I'm sure the last 1% will come with the oil removal. They're just as well made as ktech and ohlins (possibly better) on the outside, and have superior bump absorption than either on road. My only criticism is possibly the shock is slightly underdamped for a racer with slicks, but that's not me anymore. Hope this helps someone and hope you guys are all safe and well! Oh and customer service is loads better than ktech, who werent bad, and ohlins who cant even need arsed to answer emails from a pleb like me!

Great info, thanks for posting!

Can you provide any more info on what's required to machine out the fork lowers?  I'd just assumed the cartridges were 'drop in'/no modifications needed, but if they're not, I'll have to factor that in to the labour/install cost...

[Gixerspiderman]

8 hours ago, Fugitive said:

Great info, thanks for posting!

Can you provide any more info on what's required to machine out the fork lowers?  I'd just assumed the cartridges were 'drop in'/no modifications needed, but if they're not, I'll have to factor that in to the labour/install cost...

Sorry that's all I know, the head guy at Nitron basically said their 22mm cartridge is just a bit too wide so they had to machine a little from the inside of the lowers. The company are really helpful and approachable if you email them directly, theres about 6 people in the offices when I was there including the designer/head bike guy, who always responded to my emails himself. Lovely bloke and really knows his stuff, I think I'm more knowledgeable about suspension and certainly more experienced on a bike than most Brits but half of what he said still went well over my head. I like the bypass valve as well which is unique to them, so if you hit a bump theres more absorption of forces than a conventional cartridge as a valve opens up bypassing normal compression valve with a hard impact(or words to that effect,was a couple of years ago he explained it to me)

[Gixerspiderman]

[Fugitive]

8 hours ago, Gixerspiderman said:

Sorry that's all I know, the head guy at Nitron basically said their 22mm cartridge is just a bit too wide so they had to machine a little from the inside of the lowers. The company are really helpful and approachable if you email them directly, theres about 6 people in the offices when I was there including the designer/head bike guy, who always responded to my emails himself. Lovely bloke and really knows his stuff, I think I'm more knowledgeable about suspension and certainly more experienced on a bike than most Brits but half of what he said still went well over my head. I like the bypass valve as well which is unique to them, so if you hit a bump theres more absorption of forces than a conventional cartridge as a valve opens up bypassing normal compression valve with a hard impact(or words to that effect,was a couple of years ago he explained it to me)

Thanks, it's always good to know the products are backed by high quality customer service.  

Are you able to give any more info/comparisons on the suspension before and after upgrading it?  Would you do it again?

[Gixerspiderman]

I'm not being a dick it's a genuine question but I'm guessing from your question you probably haven't ridden a bike with bespoke aftermarket suspension that's been set up properly (latter part is even more important than former)? Firstly I should probably point out that I have not taken it on track, so I haven't pushed it as hard as I have for previous bikes with ohlins/ktech, however I have pushed as hard as almost anyone does on the roads, and it was set up as a committed dry weather road bike with rosso corsa 2 tyres and mildly upgraded brakes and works as well as I hoped it would. The stock stuff is terrible, the forks are possibly the worst I've ever had on a bike, the shock is pretty bad but I've had worse. So before forks dive just on gear changes if not blipping,  rear locks all the time, can't apply brakes suddenly or the front will lock as not fully loaded for a few moments, hit a bump on a committed sweeping bend and you are still pogoing 4 seconds later as you run wide on the exit etc etc. In the uk roads are peppered with potholes. They will still be felt with aftermarket suspension but the bike returns to normal immediately after as its properly damped, whereas.with stock it can again be doing a pogo impression. Too.much damping like with ohlins ttx and it jars really badly. Nitron is just right. Going back to stock comments above, all these issues are resolved. I can brake later and harder and predict what's going to happen under me consistently each time making it safer to ride faster than before. It wont stoppie or wheelie as readily,  it was slide the rear when you hit the front brakes harder,it will hold a line on the exit of a corner even if you hit a bump etc etc. And if you dont like something, you can change it and the behaviour of the bike will change. A lot of the at the limit stuff you wont detect on the road though. If I was going on track with my shock set up as it is I know it would be slightly under damped and possibly undersprung, but I specced it as such(forks are but firmer relatively and would be fine on a race bike, I've softened them off for road). Would I do it again? Absolutely. But if you are keeping the bike for a year? Probably not due to cost/hassle. The only downside other than cost/hassle is that the bike can now handle an extra 50bhp so the engine doesnt feel as fun in a way, and its lost that out of control mental little puppy attitude it had, as now it doesnt skid, wheelie and slide everywhere even when I didn't want it to. But it's a shet load faster,everywhere theres a corner in sight!

[Fugitive]

On 4/30/2020 at 8:16 AM, Gixerspiderman said:

I'm not being a dick it's a genuine question but I'm guessing from your question you probably haven't ridden a bike with bespoke aftermarket suspension that's been set up properly (latter part is even more important than former)? Firstly I should probably point out that I have not taken it on track, so I haven't pushed it as hard as I have for previous bikes with ohlins/ktech, however I have pushed as hard as almost anyone does on the roads, and it was set up as a committed dry weather road bike with rosso corsa 2 tyres and mildly upgraded brakes and works as well as I hoped it would. The stock stuff is terrible, the forks are possibly the worst I've ever had on a bike, the shock is pretty bad but I've had worse. So before forks dive just on gear changes if not blipping,  rear locks all the time, can't apply brakes suddenly or the front will lock as not fully loaded for a few moments, hit a bump on a committed sweeping bend and you are still pogoing 4 seconds later as you run wide on the exit etc etc. In the uk roads are peppered with potholes. They will still be felt with aftermarket suspension but the bike returns to normal immediately after as its properly damped, whereas.with stock it can again be doing a pogo impression. Too.much damping like with ohlins ttx and it jars really badly. Nitron is just right. Going back to stock comments above, all these issues are resolved. I can brake later and harder and predict what's going to happen under me consistently each time making it safer to ride faster than before. It wont stoppie or wheelie as readily,  it was slide the rear when you hit the front brakes harder,it will hold a line on the exit of a corner even if you hit a bump etc etc. And if you dont like something, you can change it and the behaviour of the bike will change. A lot of the at the limit stuff you wont detect on the road though. If I was going on track with my shock set up as it is I know it would be slightly under damped and possibly undersprung, but I specced it as such(forks are but firmer relatively and would be fine on a race bike, I've softened them off for road). Would I do it again? Absolutely. But if you are keeping the bike for a year? Probably not due to cost/hassle. The only downside other than cost/hassle is that the bike can now handle an extra 50bhp so the engine doesnt feel as fun in a way, and its lost that out of control mental little puppy attitude it had, as now it doesnt skid, wheelie and slide everywhere even when I didn't want it to. But it's a shet load faster,everywhere theres a corner in sight!

Yes, you've definitely picked up on my limited experience with suspension   In terms of road bikes, previous to my current 07, I had a 1996 Harley Fatboy , and before that a 2005 Bonneville T100.  So it's fair to say I have absolutely no experience when it comes to premium suspension.  That's why I'm trying to do as much research and get as many opinions as I can, so I can decide if the cost might be worth it.  No doubt if I knew how much difference a proper suspension setup would make, I wouldn't still be thinking about it haha

It sounds like you're an experienced rider with a good mix of road and track time, so thanks for sharing your thoughts about the upgrade, it's good to know what the differences have been for you.

Personally I'm torn between keeping the 07 and putting $$ into the suspension, or saving the money to put towards something that already has better suspension from factory, and a bit more power/torque - such as a later model 09/XSR900/Z900RS etc. Don't get me wrong though, it's a good problem to have!

[Gixerspiderman]

10 hours ago, Fugitive said:

Yes, you've definitely picked up on my limited experience with suspension   In terms of road bikes, previous to my current 07, I had a 1996 Harley Fatboy , and before that a 2005 Bonneville T100.  So it's fair to say I have absolutely no experience when it comes to premium suspension.  That's why I'm trying to do as much research and get as many opinions as I can, so I can decide if the cost might be worth it.  No doubt if I knew how much difference a proper suspension setup would make, I wouldn't still be thinking about it haha

It sounds like you're an experienced rider with a good mix of road and track time, so thanks for sharing your thoughts about the upgrade, it's good to know what the differences have been for you.

Personally I'm torn between keeping the 07 and putting $$ into the suspension, or saving the money to put towards something that already has better suspension from factory, and a bit more power/torque - such as a later model 09/XSR900/Z900RS etc. Don't get me wrong though, it's a good problem to have!

Indeed. For me it's about not going everywhere over 100 and losing my license, hence spending so much on a 70 odd horsepower bike. Even with one of the bikes you mentioned above the suspension wont be anywhere near as good as a properly set up aftermarket kit. I sold my R1 2017 last year, if I'd kept it I would have had to replace shock with ohlins ttx or equivalent, and had the front resprung, and I would have had to remove the abs making it non road legal(to get it to a.stage where I could ride it on track without being constantly frustrated by flaws in suspension). I already spent 800 on a blipper on a load more.on other bits. Unless you're talking Ducati panigale R level you're always going to find limitations and want to do upgrades. Admittedly some of the bikes you mention will be better than 07 stock, although personally I hated mt09 chassis front end was awful for me,not enough weight on it and forks felt too long. Time for you to ponder options!

[Fugitive]

7 hours ago, Gixerspiderman said:

Indeed. For me it's about not going everywhere over 100 and losing my license, hence spending so much on a 70 odd horsepower bike. Even with one of the bikes you mentioned above the suspension wont be anywhere near as good as a properly set up aftermarket kit. I sold my R1 2017 last year, if I'd kept it I would have had to replace shock with ohlins ttx or equivalent, and had the front resprung, and I would have had to remove the abs making it non road legal(to get it to a.stage where I could ride it on track without being constantly frustrated by flaws in suspension). I already spent 800 on a blipper on a load more.on other bits. Unless you're talking Ducati panigale R level you're always going to find limitations and want to do upgrades. Admittedly some of the bikes you mention will be better than 07 stock, although personally I hated mt09 chassis front end was awful for me,not enough weight on it and forks felt too long. Time for you to ponder options!

Yes I've heard the same about those bikes too - that even if they're running adjustable suspension from factory, it's not top-tier quality like the Nitron gear.

Another option I've been looking in to for the front-end is the YSS emulator kit - https://yssaustralia.com.au/search-make-model/32309-fork-upgrade-kit.html - do you (or anyone else here) have any experience with kits like these?  I'm told while they're not on the same level as cartridges, they're a lot better than stock and at half the price of cartridges they seem like a tempting option...