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MT27

Honda 650cc Retro-Modern Concept Model

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faffi

Not for me, like the 125 and 1000 much better.

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Liquidmetal

I like it.  Also like the 1000.

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Laben

I like it. Although, ive never ridden something that was inline. ive had a Honda shadow, victory vegas, and my fz. What are the characteristics of an inline?

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Beemer

I like it well enough. Could probably use a small cafe'ish bubble screen/fly screen.

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Beemer
42 minutes ago, Laben said:

I like it. Although, ive never ridden something that was inline. ive had a Honda shadow, victory vegas, and my fz. What are the characteristics of an inline?

No low end torque, has mid range punch and more top end power/speed.

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faffi

An inline four can easily be made to make more power from idle to redline than that of an engine with less cylinders. But a 650-700 is rather small, so pumping and friction losses can be difficult to overcome at low rpm, where a twin like the MT07 can shine. Also worth nothing is that Honda is (in)famous for making even, bland powerbands in their engines, contrary to the Yamaha MT-series. So while a 75 hp MT07 is fun and exciting, a 90 hp Honda 650 is rather blah. Not to mention a 56 hp Honda 650 🤔

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zooman72
57 minutes ago, Laben said:

I like it. Although, ive never ridden something that was inline. ive had a Honda shadow, victory vegas, and my fz. What are the characteristics of an inline?

I like it too, except maybe the headlight surround...

 

13 minutes ago, Beemer said:

No low end torque, has mid range punch and more top end power/speed.

I wouldn't say "no torque", just less than most twins, plus they are typically "smoother"...

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Beemer
1 minute ago, zooman72 said:

I like it too, except maybe the headlight surround...

 

I wouldn't say "no torque", just less than most twins, plus they are typically "smoother"...

I agree and smoother is a quality that didn't cross my mind but you have to understand that when people say a bike has no torque on the bottom they aren't being literal, they just mean it doesn't have much. 

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fzar

I like it a lot, well the headlight doesn't suit my preference but everything else is ticking the boxes. It would be interesting to see what MSRP$$ they put on it with the Rizoma stuff and SC projects exhaust.

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r1limited

 

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zooman72
2 hours ago, Beemer said:

I agree and smoother is a quality that didn't cross my mind but you have to understand that when people say a bike has no torque on the bottom they aren't being literal, they just mean it doesn't have much. 

Yes, maybe a better way to explain is that they (inline 4's) "have less urgency off the line"...  :)

 

That being said, I have found them (as a former owner so long ago of a 600cc supersport) somewhat easier to use with regards to small throttle inputs, such as when "putting around", and the 600cc+ bikes really didn't have much of a problem revving up to an appreciable power band.

 

1 hour ago, fzar said:

I like it a lot, well the headlight doesn't suit my preference but everything else is ticking the boxes. It would be interesting to see what MSRP$$ they put on it with the Rizoma stuff and SC projects exhaust.

That headlight surround (the light itself is LED and looks OK) just looks off - I know they are trying to match the other brushed aluminum trim pieces, but I think it would look better in black (along with the front fender supports.

 

As for the MSRP, Hondas are typically overpriced of late compared to similar bikes from the other "Big 3" - for example, compare their CBR500r to the Kawasaki Ninja 400.  Great bikes, but a tad underpowered and heavier in comparison too - not the best combination.  I also like the LED headlights and suspension on the newer Hondas, but dislike the guages (they are really poor/hard to read compared to the other Japanese offerings, and still no gear indicator!).

 

I doubt in will be available from the factory with the aftermarket bits (too bad), but will still be pricey - the CB650F is $8300, and the CBR650F is $8800 for example.  I suspect that this CB650R will be somewhere in the middle if they use the same suspension found on the other 650's, and if they use (or keep) a better upside-down fork (along with a better rear shock) and radial brakes, it will be more than the CBR650F.  I actually think both the CB650F and CBR650F are good looking bikes, but this new concept is the best of the three - wonder how close they will keep it's final appearance to this concept.  

 

Hopefully I get a chance to ride one in the future...

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faffi

Here are two dyno charts, both showing a Suzuki 650; the SV V-twin and GSF inline four. Notice the four making more power everywhere compared to the twin, although very little differ in peak power. Also, the power delivery is noticeably smoother for the four. Interestingly, the twin revs higher than the four, a result of the four being tuned to deliver good, smooth power from just above idle rather than high peak power. In order to match the peak power of the four, the twin must be tuned higher, which again result in a loss of low rpm grunt.

 

146-0308-sv650-dyno-zoom.jpg?itok=KpGdl2

 

840_02_suzuki_gsf_650_bandit_rsi98.jpg

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MT27
22 hours ago, faffi said:

 

Honda is (in)famous for making even, bland powerbands in their engines, contrary to the Yamaha MT-series. So while a 75 hp MT07 is fun and exciting, a 90 hp Honda 650 is rather blah. 

The MT is fun and exciting because it has short gearing.

Half of red line on the MT is right around 70 mph.

I had a 2006 honda 599 (cb600f). It had  83 hp.  Half of red line on the 599 was around 85 mph. 

 

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MT27
On 10/9/2018 at 8:42 AM, Laben said:

I like it. Although, ive never ridden something that was inline. ive had a Honda shadow, victory vegas, and my fz. What are the characteristics of an inline?

You should test ride a 4 and see how you like it. They have a shorter stroke so they turn a few more rpm's. If you get a chance test ride a Triumph Street Triple. They are small just like the MT but make almost 50% more hp.

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