A question about the AP Link

[enduro250]

Please can anyone explain to me, how this link is working?
it is the connection between the frame and the  redirection lever (sorry, don't now the correct translation) 

Is it shorter or longer then stock ( assume longer, to increase the ride height )
Is there a change in the progression?
What is the effect?
is it the same when I use the length adjustment of my rear shock ( I have this option on my Hyperpro)

THX in advance

[blackout]

8 minutes ago, enduro250 said:

Please can anyone explain to me, how this link is working?
it is the connection between the frame and the  redirection lever (sorry, don't now the correct translation) 

Is it shorter or longer then stock ( assume longer, to increase the ride height )
Is there a change in the progression?
What is the effect?
is it the same when I use the length adjustment of my rear shock ( I have this option on my Hyperpro)

THX in advance

The link is shorter.  It increases ride height, therefore swing arm angle.  The purpose is to increase rear anti-squat.  A swingarm angle of 11 to 12.5 degrees at full extension is what we need.  Stock is a few degrees below this.  I do not think lengthening the shock will get you enough angle.  And at some point the shock clevis will bind on the L-link.

[enduro250]

ok thx, 
I think, I can follow you.
additional question: I found some different L - Links as well.
Have I to change it Consequently as well?
or makes it sense to change both parts?

[blackout]

Just do the shorter AP link.

[enduro250]

THX 

[Mad]

1 hour ago, blackout said:

The link is shorter.  It increases ride height, therefore swing arm angle.  The purpose is to increase rear anti-squat.  A swingarm angle of 11 to 12.5 degrees at full extension is what we need.  Stock is a few degrees below this.  I do not think lengthening the shock will get you enough angle.  And at some point the shock clevis will bind on the L-link.

Do you know how much difference there is between oem and ap ? 

[blackout]

3 minutes ago, Mad said:

Do you know how much difference there is between oem and ap ? 

Actual length of link??

[Mad]

Yes !  I'm trying to decide between a lot of different solutions . . But is almost impossible to find the length of the ap link 

[norcal616]

https://www.extremecreations.com.au/jack-up-plates-2... adjustable one 

[enduro250]

I would buy Andy's Link, but he is not shipping international 
I am looking for a solution  

[mossrider]

7mm shorter

[enduro250]

but these plates  gives your more movement in lowering

" . . . These new plates allow for range of -35mm(-1 1/2"), -25mm(-1"), stock & +25mm (+1") rear ride height, . . . "

[blackout]

4 minutes ago, enduro250 said:

but these plates  gives your more movement in lowering

" . . . These new plates allow for range of -35mm(-1 1/2"), -25mm(-1"), stock & +25mm (+1") rear ride height, . . . "

Yah, no one will lower a race bike.  So not very helpful.

[Mad]

I belive that this is more or less an increase of 3 cm or even more 

25 mm the Extreme creations

Maybe 30 mm the Ap 

[blackout]

Here is an old thread of the custom link I machined.  It is 3/16" shorter, raised the rear 5/8", and increased the swingarm angle at full extension to 10.8 degrees.  So, it's currently a little longer than the AP link.  The AP link would bring the swingarm angle into it's sweet spot of 11 to 12.5 degrees (Info from Dave Moss, BTW).  I will be shortening my link this winter another 1/8".

 

 

[Mad]

Ok , i don't know how to math imperial but I belive that your next link will be 5/16 shorter than standard ( a little less than 8mm shorter than oem )

so 1/32 shorter than ap 

Just out of curiosity,  why going even shorter then ap ? 

 

P.s. Your project is incredible ! 

Edited September 18, 2018 by Mad

[enduro250]

@blackout : great thread you have posted ; From this I can learn what I have missed the last 3 years 

[enduro250]

to be serious: It gives me a good idea of what everything was already considered, THX for all this info

[blackout]

34 minutes ago, Mad said:

Ok , i don't know how to math imperial but I belive that your next link will be 5/16 shorter than standard ( a little less than 8mm shorter than oem )

so 1/32 shorter than ap 

Just out of curiosity,  why going even shorter then ap ? 

 

P.s. Your project is incredible ! 

Yes, there is 25.4mm in an inch.  

 

Why shorter, only because I can try it.  I'll recheck the swingarm angle to make sure it's not steeper than what Dave Moss suggests.

 

I'd love to get an Aim Solo 2 Data Logger and install a potentiometer on the rear shock to measure squat on corner exit.  There should be none if I'm at 100 percent anti-squat.  (Not sure percentages until I know CG height.  I need to research more when I'm snowed in this winter.  Lol)

 

 

[scratchpad]

what is this increase rear anti squat you guys are referring to? also what are you guys doing to the front after youre raising the rear so much? what are your shock lengths eye to eye right now and at what swingarm angle? 

[blackout]

5 hours ago, scratchpad said:

what is this increase rear anti squat you guys are referring to? also what are you guys doing to the front after youre raising the rear so much? what are your shock lengths eye to eye right now and at what swingarm angle? 

Front is at the stock height for me.  I'm the only one talking anti-squat as the reason the rear was raised by Andy Palmer.  But after some research, I determined that was the reason why he did it.  I have not talked to him.  

 

You do not want the rear suspension to squat under acceleration in corner exit because that removes weight from the front tire and the bike will want to go wide with less grip up front.  More swing arm angle fixes this on the fz07.  That's the short answer.

 

11 to 12.5 degrees of swingarm angle at full extension is what Dave Moss recommends.  Stock on the fz07 is around 9 degrees.

[scratchpad]

3 hours ago, blackout said:

Front is at the stock height for me.  I'm the only one talking anti-squat as the reason the rear was raised by Andy Palmer.  But after some research, I determined that was the reason why he did it.  I have not talked to him.  

 

You do not want the rear suspension to squat under acceleration in corner exit because that removes weight from the front tire and the bike will want to go wide with less grip up front.  More swing arm angle fixes this on the fz07.  That's the short answer.

 

11 to 12.5 degrees of swingarm angle at full extension is what Dave Moss recommends.  Stock on the fz07 is around 9 degrees.

Interesting i dont have that problem. Maybe i need the link to go faster though. 

So, thats not something that can be attained with suspension setup?

[scratchpad]

what is your shock length, eye to eye?

[blackout]

20 minutes ago, scratchpad said:

Interesting i dont have that problem. Maybe i need the link to go faster though. 

So, thats not something that can be attained with suspension setup?

Shock spring and valving surely could be adjusted to help, but it's best handled through chassis geometry.  

 

My shock is at stock length.  I run a Nitron R3 for what it's worth.

[mossrider]

For what it's worth: I run a JRi at 12 1/2" oal (approx) with stock forks (Andreani Carts) at 8 mm above triples and an AP link. I like the Pirelli 180/60 series sized tires for even more on the front.  (A 180 is over kill but I like the extra height) Puts bike on it's nose quite a bit more. Handles very well. It's competitive at MA and expert club racing level. Better than I and most folks that have run it anyway. Feels a lot like an underpowered R6. It doesn't tie itself up like some of the R6 front ended bikes due to mismatched suspension end to end. 

 

My $.02 anyway.