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phanomenal07

Oil level problems

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phanomenal07

Hi, so if you guys Remember I mentioned my oil was messed with by the dealer that change my wheels and did my 8000 mile service and screwed everything up Well since then my oil level slowly lowers over time. I thought it was In my head at first so I changed the oil again and monitored the oil level. I filled the oil up to the full line with the bike up right. 850 miles later the oil is not at the low oil line. I can’t find a leak anywhere and I don’t smell any burning oil while riding. Would you guys happen to know if anything in particular would cause this? I wanna call the dealer and explain this to them but I really don’t wanna take my bike back there.

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norcal616

you only need less an 2.75qt with oil filter and oil change...just under 2.5qt for oil change...

 

sight glass works when you get the bike warmed up, shut it off and wait 3-4 mins and then check sight glass( i place a chunk of 2x4 under kick stand to stand bike up more)

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rick

2x4, hah, I do the same. The bike is not dead vertical, but close enough to look precarious w/o it actually being. 

 

How much oil does it take to go from the bottom line to the top line? I'd say whatever that is, it's too much for 850 miles on a motor with only 8000. 

 

If it's not leaking onto the ground somewhere - basically from the drain plug or oil filter, or maybe the output shaft seal behind the front sprocket, it's getting burned. That's a choice of valve guide seal or an oil ring that's not wiping efficiently.

 

Keep in mind, if you change oil and filter and then fill to the line, after you fire up the bike, the oil level will drop when the filter takes it's fill. But if you are seeing the level slowly drop over time, something is wrong. My oil level won't move 1mm over 800 miles and that's probably very representative.. 

Edited by rick
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phanomenal07

Hmm so I guess I’ll call the guide and tell him my bike is burning oil and see if they will take it in. I don’t know what they could’ve done to make my bike burn oil. It wasn’t doing it before I brought it in. All they were suppose to do was change my tires and spark plugs and a regular service.

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phanomenal07

Ok so I talked to a mechanic today and he said that all 4 stroke engine have a tolerance of 900cc of oil per 1000 miles that the bike is allowed to use. He said it would have to go beyond that to warrant taking the engine apart. 

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mjh937
25 minutes ago, phanomenal07 said:

Ok so I talked to a mechanic today and he said that all 4 stroke engine have a tolerance of 900cc of oil per 1000 miles that the bike is allowed to use. He said it would have to go beyond that to warrant taking the engine apart. 

Almost a liter of oil every 1,000 miles?  That seems like way too much.  You would never need to change your oil at that rate as in less than 3,000 miles you would have replaced it all.  My bike has over 17,000 miles and I have never need to add oil. 

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phanomenal07

Yeah idk how accurate that is either. He said that is the tolerable rate before having the engine taken apart to find the problem. I think I’m at 12 oz per 1000 mile ish. Seems like a lot to me but he said if I was to bring it to him there wouldn’t be much he could do. He also says it has something to do with the seals that the manufacturer uses. If some can shed some light on this, it would be appreciated 

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DewMan
8 minutes ago, phanomenal07 said:

Yeah idk how accurate that is either. He said that is the tolerable rate before having the engine taken apart to find the problem. I think I’m at 12 oz per 1000 mile ish. Seems like a lot to me but he said if I was to bring it to him there wouldn’t be much he could do. He also says it has something to do with the seals that the manufacturer uses. If some can shed some light on this, it would be appreciated 

I'm thinking a second opinion from another mechanic would be prudent. That much oil use seems excessive to me.

 

Good Luck. ✌️

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shinyribs

Your valves and combustion chamber will get filled with carbon from burning that much oil. Not to mention the about of fuel would also be making past the rings and in the bottom end. Fuel kills oils lubricity. I've never agreed with letting an burner just continue to waste waste like this. 

 

Someone solid needs to check this out. Good luck, bro. 

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norcal616

so you filled oil up to the full line and your concerned the oil is not droping to the low line after 850miles?

 

if you have filled it up to much oil, the oil lvl rises slightly over time due to breaking down and getting full of engine byproducts, over time this gets blown into the airbox or it goes out the oil vapor hose...

 

have you drained your airbox lately? 

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phanomenal07

How do I drain the air box?

  • Haha 1

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phanomenal07
28 minutes ago, norcal616 said:

so you filled oil up to the full line and your concerned the oil is not droping to the low line after 850miles?

 

if you have filled it up to much oil, the oil lvl rises slightly over time due to breaking down and getting full of engine byproducts, over time this gets blown into the airbox or it goes out the oil vapor hose...

 

have you drained your airbox lately? 

The oil is dropping to the low line is why I am concern.  This has only been happening for the last 2 oil changes

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Yamaoldster

If you are burning that much oil you can tell by sticking your finger (or looking up the pipe) up the exhaust pipe. Your finger should come out looking something like the color of a proper burning spark plug, maybe a little darker. Burning a lot of oil will cause the pipe to be "cruddy" (for lack of better word). When I looking at buying a used mc this is the first thing I do.

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rick

Sorry, can you briefly describe again what they did to mess with the oil  when you took it in for the 8k service. 

 

 

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rick

Did they replace the air filter at that 8k service? They likely had the tank off. 

 

Have a look to make sure they did not disconnect the vacuum hose that goes to that diaphragm valve that sits on top of the air box. I think that opens under higher engine vacuum and lets more air into the air box. Not sure about this, but if leaving that hose off can result in a negative pressure inside the air box, it's possible that excessive oil will be sucked up into the air box thru the crank case breather.

 

There's always gonna be some oil in the air box, but if this is what's happening, you might have a lot, the filter might be soaked ( the service manual suggests it's oil coated anyway) and your new plugs will be nicely carbon-ed

 

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mjh937

US bikes do not have that valve.  They just have a rubber snorkel, if it has not been removed. 

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norcal616
10 hours ago, phanomenal07 said:

How do I drain the air box?

left side of airbox( kickstand side) ...look underneath the airbox near the back corner and you will see a rubber cap- pull the cap off to see what comes out...

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phanomenal07
5 hours ago, norcal616 said:

left side of airbox( kickstand side) ...look underneath the airbox near the back corner and you will see a rubber cap- pull the cap off to see what comes out...

Oh boy. I’ll try that when I get home.

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rick
9 hours ago, mjh937 said:

US bikes do not have that valve.  They just have a rubber snorkel, if it has not been removed. 

Shows ya how little I've been under the tank, lol. I guess the service manual we all seem to have was for the original MT after all. 

 

 

 

 

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cyow5

Can you confirm what viscosity you are running? With the higher temps lately, running an already-too-thin oil could definitely lead to increased consumption. The manual suggests a 40 to 50 weight for the summer

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shinyribs
18 hours ago, Yamaoldster said:

If you are burning that much oil you can tell by sticking your finger (or looking up the pipe) up the exhaust pipe. Your finger should come out looking something like the color of a proper burning spark plug, maybe a little darker. Burning a lot of oil will cause the pipe to be "cruddy" (for lack of better word). When I looking at buying a used mc this is the first thing I do.

Typically, but not always. I had a Kawasaki that burned oil fast as this guys bike. A quart in 1k miles.  Muffler was clean as a pin, as was the spark plug. I don't understand that, but it's how went. 

 

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rick

Unless the catalytic converter's been removed,  it's gonna burn up the hydrocarbons pretty efficiently that get into the exhaust before it exists the muffler. 

 

Switching to a 10w50 or 20w50 weight oil might help, but even with the heat this summer (kids are getting let out of school here 2 hours early due to the 90+ temps here) the motor temp is held pretty constant. Now, if the thing was air cooled, that's a whole different ball game. 

 

I'd definitely recommend a switch to full synthetic if it's not in there now. 

 

I've not had the spark coils out of mine to do plugs yet. How clean do the holes in the cover/head stay down at the bottom? I routinely will blow compressed air down around the plug before even loosing it - just to make sure there's no grit or goo down there that can fall into the cylinder. 

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cyow5
40 minutes ago, rick said:

the motor temp is held pretty constant. Now, if the thing was air cooled, that's a whole different ball game. 

 

I 90% agree. The 10% disagreement only comes from the fact the manual has a thicker oil recommendation for hotter climates. This tells me that, even if the water temp is constant, there is an environmental influence in the oil temperature or at higher temps it will struggle to reject enough heat out the radiator. Doubt it is enough to be a make-or-break difference, but it is worth noting that the difference is there. 

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phanomenal07

I am currently using amsoil 10w40 

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rick

Yeah, certainly, the fan would be on more in traffic. Considering how high temp. that's set, the oil would likely also get hot. Won't hurt to switch to a good 20w50 synthetic, but I don't think that's gonna fix it. 

 

My old R bikes would burn about 300cc per 1k miles. Those cylinders got and hot in the summer - blisters on the toes hot!. Oil was free to run up into the rings on the left side when you shut it off and put it on the side stand. With unpinned rings, every now and then it would start up with a big cloud of smoke. Run them up to 100 mph and close the throttle shut - no one for miles from behind could see you due to the smoke cloud.  Great fun when yer pissed at a buddy. 

 

I put about 120k miles between the '76 R90 in my avatar and an '82 R100RS. The oil consumption never changed and that was dino oil. 

 

Sadly, both car and bike dealers alike (Audi and BMW and VW with direct injection seem really bad oil drinkers) are telling people that 1 qt of oil per liter is acceptable. Iirc, BMW has a 10k mile service for oil changes - 10 quarts of expensive synthetic later? Seriously? 

 

My 16 year old Aprilia uses no oil. Neither should an FZ with 8k miles. Somethings not right.  

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