Jump to content
The MT-07 Forum

Harley Street Fighter 975


afatrat

Recommended Posts

The 975 could have more power than you guys are expecting. This isn't gonna be a traditional Harley engine or bike and twins can make alot of power no probs, four valve twins that is.

I expect the 975 to compete more with the fz-09 and have around 115 hp at the wheel. 

 

Yes you don't need more power than 60hp, but once you have owned bikes with more power, 60-70 just isn't enough. In Idaho the freeway speed limit is 80mph, everyone is doing 90mph or more. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 74
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Pattonme,

I sort of agree, with a couple of qualifiers. Raw HP needed to thrill will depend on how lardy the bike is. Eg. The NSR250's I rode when stripped down weighed 120kg full of fuel. They had the same HP as the 07. They were just pure thrill to ride. The 07 is really good cause it's 60-70HP is matched to a reasonable street weight. But imagine 70 hp in a 220 kg bike. It's gonna lose a fair bit of it's magic.

Torque I am less sure about. I think more useable controllable torque the better. But can be convinced otherwise with a good arguement.

You don't have to convince me on little bikes though. I love little bike that handle and respond so the bike disapperas and you feel like it is just part of you not the other way around.

The Harley reminds me of the Ducati Diavel, looks ponderous and a lot of stuff to chuck around ( though the Duc WILL actually repsond to spirited chucking better tha the H).

 

Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Grip it & Rip it

I agree that's the thing... this will only work if HD can somehow put out a reasonably not-heavy bike... which would be a first, if I'm not mistaken.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 years is when I'll probably be looking to buy (i'm making bike "payments" into a savings account). I've always loved harleys and have owned a couple but went to the FZ when I started getting into more sporty riding. I honestly hope this bike is good and not priced to crazy. But if it's priced too closely to the new CBR1k, MT10 etc, and it doesn't offer more power... well I'll probably have to go elsewhere. I would be absolutely excited to have the first real sport harley though if the power/weight/pricetag is right!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, pattonme said:

... it's the unwillingness to spend the time to actually get it right. Ditto suspension.

I was surprised to learn that even the Thruxton R with Ohlins come stock with mismatched suspension, according to Dave Moss. You can find video on youtube.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Cruizin said:

 

 

Yes you don't need more power than 60hp, but once you have owned bikes with more power, 60-70 just isn't enough. In Idaho the freeway speed limit is 80mph, everyone is doing 90mph or more. 

 

 

I have owned bikes with everything from 2.5 to 130hp, and I have been utterly happy with the MT07 as well as my current 550lb scrambler with an XV1100 engine making perhaps 65-70 crank hp on a good day. I also have fun on bikes with half that. And high power itself does not a nice bike make. In other words, for me, power is just one of many things that decide if a bike is fun or not. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Global Moderator
15 hours ago, Cruizin said:

 

 

Yes you don't need more power than 60hp, but once you have owned bikes with more power, 60-70 just isn't enough. In Idaho the freeway speed limit is 80mph, everyone is doing 90mph or more. 

 

 

I've had a few bikes over the years. None of them made the freeway fun :). 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The FZ-07 can do 90 and up to around 130 on the highway, it's more a matter of how good your 'roll on speed' is at those speeds. If you're doing 90 in 6th and need to go from 90 to say 100 in an instant then maybe a bigger bike will do that quicker but the FZ-07 and other like bikes with only 60-70 h.p. will get up to 100 and higher. Granted, they may be screaming a little more than a liter + bike at those speeds but they can take it.

 

I think Harley would do well to contract the help from companies 'outside the motorcycle world' (Porsche perhaps?) that know race engines very well, like Yamaha has done in the past to make an engine that does nothing but scream performance, performance that everyone expects from a modern bike and a company that knows how to shave the excess fat off a ham, if you catch my drift. 

Beemer

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Global Moderator

@Beemer, if I am not mistaken Porsche designed the engine for the V-Rod.  I do not know if it was any good, I suspect a lot of it depended on what HD asked for.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

topazsparrow
3 hours ago, Beemer said:

The FZ-07 can do 90 and up to around 130 on the highway, it's more a matter of how good your 'roll on speed' is at those speeds. If you're doing 90 in 6th and need to go from 90 to say 100 in an instant then maybe a bigger bike will do that quicker but the FZ-07 and other like bikes with only 60-70 h.p. will get up to 100 and higher. Granted, they may be screaming a little more than a liter + bike at those speeds but they can take it.

 

I think Harley would do well to contract the help from companies 'outside the motorcycle world' (Porsche perhaps?) that know race engines very well, like Yamaha has done in the past to make an engine that does nothing but scream performance, performance that everyone expects from a modern bike and a company that knows how to shave the excess fat off a ham, if you catch my drift. 

To me Japanese engines don't scream performance as much as they quietly humm "reliability and precision".

 

Compare many of the Japanese offerings to Euro bikes and they generally get spanked when it's apples to apples. The Japanese bikes (and Yamaha in particular lately) have been offering just more than enough to keep the bikes fun and zippy (although at times classically lacking character like many honda's) while still absolutely nailing it in the long term reliability and bang for your buck categories.

 

You make a good point though, Harley has two options. Chase the bang for your buck, long term reliability buyers... or cut into the higher performance market and throw reliability and precision to the wind (which they're typically already do).

 

Honestly, harley could crank out some crazy high performance motor with a ton of character that explodes after 20,000 miles and chuck it in a nice looking chassis with respectable handing, outsource the suspension (like they're already planning) and people with money would probably eat it up. I think people are correct when they compare this to the Duc Monster - that's should be the target market, not budget minded bang for your buck, long term reliability buyers like us. The Japanese have a tight grip on that market already.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, topazsparrow said:

To me Japanese engines don't scream performance as much as they quietly humm "reliability and precision".

 

Compare many of the Japanese offerings to Euro bikes and they generally get spanked when it's apples to apples. The Japanese bikes (and Yamaha in particular lately) have been offering just more than enough to keep the bikes fun and zippy (although at times classically lacking character like many honda's) while still absolutely nailing it in the long term reliability and bang for your buck categories.

 

You make a good point though, Harley has two options. Chase the bang for your buck, long term reliability buyers... or cut into the higher performance market and throw reliability and precision to the wind (which they're typically already do).

 

Honestly, harley could crank out some crazy high performance motor with a ton of character that explodes after 20,000 miles and chuck it in a nice looking chassis with respectable handing, outsource the suspension (like they're already planning) and people with money would probably eat it up. I think people are correct when they compare this to the Duc Monster - that's should be the target market, not budget minded bang for your buck, long term reliability buyers like us. The Japanese have a tight grip on that market already.

You're right. You're not a mind reader and I didn't mention it but I when I said what I did I was only referring to one of my favorite old bikes, the Yamaha 550 Vision. Yamaha did have the help of the Porsche (for the final drive, not the engine) company with designing that bike and the critics loved the engine. That V-twin bike was faster than the inline 4's in it's class at the time and that's saying a lot. That's all I was referring to as an example. Yamaha did the unexpected with that bike in particular. I didn't mean all Japanese bikes nor all of Yamahas. I only meant that if Harley applied itself it could also make an 'extraordinary' motor if it really put forth the effort, like Yamaha did with the Vision. 

 

Motos.com: "Several high profile external design houses contributed to the design of the XZ550 including GK Design Associates for design, and reputedly Cosworth for the engine and Porsche for the final drive."

 

Yamha-tech.com: " The Vision succeeded on both fronts, its comfort on long rides and veritable torque-monster engine matched by its distinctive deep V-Twin exhaust beat and "neck-snapping performance." The bike was considered "rather B.M.W.-like," in reference to its touring credentials, and "the most European motorcycle from Japan in recent memory."

 

The effort Yamaha put forth in that bike seems to be a rarity but it's something Harley could try and replicate if it really wanted to shake up the cycle world and help shake off the their old reputation.

Beemer

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, mjh937 said:

@Beemer, if I am not mistaken Porsche designed the engine for the V-Rod.  I do not know if it was any good, I suspect a lot of it depended on what HD asked for.  

From what I understand the engine in that bike is definitely a better made engine ( I'm not up on Harley's so I didn't know that Porsche helped design that engine) and a good engine but obviously not good enough on it's own to please the sport bike crowd. It's going to take very low weight and top notch handling to finish the job. 

Beemer

Link to comment
Share on other sites

topazsparrow
48 minutes ago, Beemer said:

From what I understand the engine in that bike is definitely a better made engine ( I'm not up on Harley's so I didn't know that Porsche helped design that engine) and a good engine but obviously not good enough on it's own to please the sport bike crowd. It's going to take very low weight and top notch handling to finish the job. 

I don't see the full fairing sport bike they mentioned doing well at all.. in any aspect.

 

The streetfighter likely won't need to be very light or handle particularly well to compete though. Just be fun to ride and look cool and it should do okay, I think anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, topazsparrow said:

I don't see the full fairing sport bike they mentioned doing well at all.. in any aspect.

 

The streetfighter likely won't need to be very light or handle particularly well to compete though. Just be fun to ride and look cool and it should do okay, I think anyway.

Agreed, just Ok, not top of the line on any level.

Beemer

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A pig is a pig is a pig

“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.” --Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Beemer, I am pretty sure Porsche had nothing to do with the shaft final drive on the Vision. They did help designing the shaft on the XS750; AFAIK, it is the only constant velocity joint in motorcycling. It was also very costly. So from the XS1100-on, Yamaha used a simple U-joint as everybody else. 

 

pu85y6zyvosxp5.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it's about time Harley stepped back and had a rethink of the companies direction. Harley said they're going to put out the LiveWire first with a new and lighter battery package etc., followed by the Streetfighter,  the bigger GS type adventure bikes and possibly more E bikes and bicycles. The fact that Harley now has equity in Alta motors points to this E bike future and the sketches of the E streettracker with XR styling was interesting. Harley see's the writing on the wall finally and looks set to move on a new path in the future. One more advancement in batteries with quick charge capability and we're going to see the end of the ICE and overnight our beloved fuel burners will be vintage.

 

I just spent the last week riding my 300+ lb. DRZ in the Sierras and as much fun as I was having I couldn't stop thinking of the 2019 Alta EXR, it's lighter, smoother, shiftless etc. and I'm convinced has enough range and fast charge time to be more than adequate for me...and now Harley has equity in the company (per CycleWorld) so they've got my interest piqued.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, faffi said:

Beemer, I am pretty sure Porsche had nothing to do with the shaft final drive on the Vision. They did help designing the shaft on the XS750; AFAIK, it is the only constant velocity joint in motorcycling. It was also very costly. So from the XS1100-on, Yamaha used a simple U-joint as everybody else. 

 

pu85y6zyvosxp5.jpg

So porsche shafted yamaha

 

I wonder what shaft would say about that he is one bad MUTHA
SHUT YO MOUF
 

shaft.jpg

“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.” --Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
On 8/3/2018 at 1:54 PM, Beemer said:

From what I understand the engine in that bike is definitely a better made engine ( I'm not up on Harley's so I didn't know that Porsche helped design that engine) and a good engine but obviously not good enough on it's own to please the sport bike crowd. It's going to take very low weight and top notch handling to finish the job. 

My brother has a V-Rod. Porsche designed motor with liquid cooling. It is a strong motor but I can't compare it to any other Harley, it's the only one I ever rode. My opinion on that bike (V-Rod) is it's a nice feeling, strong motor with a ton of torque stuffed into an overweight, uncomfortable dump truck of a bike. And it's ugly. They put the pegs that far forward because their motors are so wide and lumpy you can't sit on them in any kind of proper position for good control and comfort. I can never get him to go riding with me because it hurts his back after like 10 minutes. Harley's are NOT for folks who like to actually ride. They are conversation pcs. and garage decorations only. Shame.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, michigan400 said:

My brother has a V-Rod. Porsche designed motor with liquid cooling. It is a strong motor but I can't compare it to any other Harley, it's the only one I ever rode. My opinion on that bike (V-Rod) is it's a nice feeling, strong motor with a ton of torque stuffed into an overweight, uncomfortable dump truck of a bike. And it's ugly. They put the pegs that far forward because their motors are so wide and lumpy you can't sit on them in any kind of proper position for good control and comfort. I can never get him to go riding with me because it hurts his back after like 10 minutes. Harley's are NOT for folks who like to actually ride. They are conversation pcs. and garage decorations only. Shame.

I pulled up next to some dude and his black leather adorned skank on his custom conversation piece chopper last just night. I guess they thought the bike was so cool looking that no one would notice they both needed a shower and a shave. Not so much his face, her armpits seemed to be waving bye-bye as I pulled away from them. 😫

Beemer

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Beemer said:

I pulled up next some dude and his black leather adorned skank on his custom conversation piece chopper last just night. I guess they thought the bike was so cool looking that no one would notice they both needed a shower and a shave. Not so much his face, her armpits seemed to be waving bye-bye as I pulled away from them. 😫

LMAO!!! That paints a picture I wish I didn't see!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎8‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 4:49 PM, faffi said:

Beemer, I am pretty sure Porsche had nothing to do with the shaft final drive on the Vision. They did help designing the shaft on the XS750; AFAIK, it is the only constant velocity joint in motorcycling. It was also very costly. So from the XS1100-on, Yamaha used a simple U-joint as everybody else. 

 

pu85y6zyvosxp5.jpg

I look up to you on this site, you seem to have a lot of knowledge on bikes, as much if not more than most people but it pains me to say if you don't know for sure you should remain on the fence and not take a side.

This was copied from wiki:   "The Yamaha Vision was originally conceived in the late 1970s when motorcycling was at its peak, and spent three years in development, being overseen by a small group of designers and enthusiasts rather than "committee think". Several high-profile external design houses contributed to the design of the XZ550 including GK Design Associates for design, and reputedly Cosworth for the engine and Porsche for the final drive.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_XZ_550

Beemer

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎8‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 5:26 PM, pattonme said:

Now that is right proper!

 

yamaha-xz-550-7.jpg

Ok, I'll stop jacking the thread.

 

No, don't stop, I've never seen an Vision that nice! My god, why can't Yamaha make one just like it but with 1100cc? I would buy one in a heartbeat! They could call it a retro bike and it would kick ass, especially with fuel injection and other modern technologies.

Beemer

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Beemer, I would be very interested to learn what Porsche helped design with the final drive as it is basically identical in principle to that of the Viragos that appeared one year prior, and also to the XJ650 that appeared in 1980, two years before the XZ550. You can check this out at partzilla.com. Even the rear wheels interchange between the 3 and naturally use the same splines on the final drive, and the swingarm and suspension are spitting images of that on the Viragos.

 

If we look at the middle gears, they also appear to use the same principle, albeit different part numbers and different input axles, but the drive pinions operate in the same manner. There are no evidence of anything special or different in the final drive design that I can spot.

 

The German magazine Das MOTORRAD wrote in issue 1, 1982, that development time for the XZ550 was only 15 months, astonishing even for a Japanese company when it came to bringing out a totally new model. They also praised the Japanese engineers on the brilliant gearbox and virtually reaction-free final drive. Much like the Virago, I may add from personal experience. It seems likely, to me, at least, that the German magazine would have mentioned it if the German car maker Porsche had been involved. At least they made a big case of Porsche helping Harley developing a V4 back when.

 

According to this https://bikerszene.de/magazin/testberichte/402541/yamaha-xs-750-xs-850.html the story about Porsche developing the XS750 final drive is false; they claim it was designed with help from Getrag. The article also say that Porsche did stress test the final drive and also took to the triple, enlarging the engine to 900cc and fitting much sportier cams of their own design. Unfortunately, according to the article, this was not revealed until much later.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.