Reminder to new riders

[topazsparrow]

Always ride your own ride. Don't try to keep up with the group if you're not comfortable doing so. Buddy got really lucky and wore full gear head to toe. Gravel and back brake threw him off a highside. The bike straightened out and went airborn.

 

Path of bike on the right, rider landed in the circle on the left:

 

 

Edited July 30, 2018 by topazsparrow
added picture

[Duke]

Yes, absolutely.

 

Glad your buddy wore full gear and is relatively okay! Hope insurance will take care of the repairs/replacement?

 

Also as a side note, I really like how you graphed out the path of the bike and rider. It really gives a nice visual.

 

 

[Zephyr]

Ditto on the above.  Glad he's ok.  Just curious if you know if he had attended any rider training?  Also did the group know that he was "pushing his limits" so to speak?  

[r1limited]

Its a reminder for any rider to not bite off more than you can chew.  Group rides turn into pissing matches, even a vet can start thinking with is brains dangling beneath his legs instead of the one between the ears.  
 

Since no details, one lucky SOB

[topazsparrow]

12 minutes ago, Zephyr said:

Ditto on the above.  Glad he's ok.  Just curious if you know if he had attended any rider training?  Also did the group know that he was "pushing his limits" so to speak?  

I feel somewhat responsible being the most skilled rider in the group and knowing that road the best. I probably should have rode in front at a very slow pace to keep them in line. But I also didn't want to influence them (the three other riders with me were all under 1 year experience) and let them ride their own pace.

 

My GF was there and tends to feel pressured when I ride behind her so I didn't want to do that, and I didn't want to ride up front for fear of seting the pace too fast for them - as what seems slow to me might be very fast for them.

 

I decided to rip ahead out of sight and enjoy myself and told them I'd be doing that so they wouldn't feel encouraged to try and keep up.

 

The guy in question was apparently overshooting his corners a lot and crossing the yellow line. If I was there I would have got in front of him and told him to pull over so we could have a talk about it. Crossing the yellow line is death wish on a canyon road.

 

Ultimately, there's a few things I could have done, but it's still his responsibility to ride his own ride at the end of the day. It's a shame that he didn't know his limits. He's okay though, pretty bruised up but no broken bones or bleeding.

Edited July 30, 2018 by topazsparrow

[topazsparrow]

as if the poor guy didn't have a bad enough day... this is the "tow truck" the CAA sent us after making us wait 3.5 hours.

 

Brings a minivan, No cones, no hazards, parks on blind corner and tells us we have to load the bike ourselves. Also gets mad it spilled oil on the trailer. What a joke.

 

 

[cyow5]

As a newbie myself coming up on one year of riding, how else should he have handled the actual wreck? It sounds like he hit gravel and the bike bucked him highside, and this is personally the biggest situation I worry about - losing grip on a bad surface and then suddenly regaining it. Are you not just a passenger at that point?

[topazsparrow]

9 minutes ago, cyow5 said:

As a newbie myself coming up on one year of riding, how else should he have handled the actual wreck? It sounds like he hit gravel and the bike bucked him highside, and this is personally the biggest situation I worry about - losing grip on a bad surface and then suddenly regaining it. Are you not just a passenger at that point?

The "Right" answer is to follow the marked speed limits and you will pretty much never have this issue.. even with gravel on the road.

 

The "enthusiast" answer is to know your limits and ride within them. Sadly, new riders don't know what they don't know. They're not aware of their limits or the bike's and can easily cross that line. I wish we had more access to tracks around here as you can learn your limits so much easier and safer there. For the rest of us, we learn by slowly pushing the envelope a little bit farther each time and counting on good luck when we over do it.

 

It's worth mentioning that his bike was set up terribly and I suspect it was a compounding factor. The front springs where almost too stiff to compress when I bounced on them. They must have been set up for a 220+ lbs rider and he was only 50 lbs. Additionally the rear shock was very soft and plush. The bike just wasn't balanced. The riders behind him said that he was charging the corners and going wide on almost all of them....

 

Which brings me to a major point of contention. If he had an intercom (sena or whatever) the other rides would have happily told him he's pushing himself too hard. They were all thinking it but had no way to tell him. I know my Sena has saved my ass so many times in groups rides, whether it's warning about upcoming gravel, cars, cops, you name it... it's been worth it's weight in gold.

[cyow5]

6 minutes ago, topazsparrow said:

The "Right" answer is to follow the marked speed limits and you will pretty much never have this issue.. even with gravel on the road.

 

The "enthusiast" answer is to know your limits and ride within them. Sadly, new riders don't know what they don't know. They're not aware of their limits or the bike's and can easily cross that line. I wish we had more access to tracks around here as you can learn your limits so much easier and safer there. For the rest of us, we learn by slowly pushing the envelope a little bit farther each time and counting on good luck when we over do it.

 

It's worth mentioning that his bike was set up terribly and I suspect it was a compounding factor. The front springs where almost too stiff to compress when I bounced on them. They must have been set up for a 220+ lbs rider and he was only 50 lbs. Additionally the rear shock was very soft and plush. The bike just wasn't balanced. The riders behind him said that he was charging the corners and going wide on almost all of them....

 

Which brings me to a major point of contention. If he had an intercom (sena or whatever) the other rides would have happily told him he's pushing himself too hard. They were all thinking it but had no way to tell him. I know my Sena has saved my ass so many times in groups rides, whether it's warning about upcoming gravel, cars, cops, you name it... it's been worth it's weight in gold.

Thanks for not thinking I was just arguing for arguments' sake! I've learned a lot of these lessons over the years but in a car. The actual physics are way different of course, but the concept of slowly building and learning how to judge if you are pushing it or not has been helpful. 

 

There's a couple steel expansion joints on my commute that always get me nervous. In the rain, I can feel my car skip sideways when I hit them, so I know I don't want to experience that on the bike. I just take it easy on those and save the lesson for later. I try to also make sure there's enough reserve in case I hit a slick spot or have to maneuver, but something's bound to go awry one day.  

[r1limited]

6 hours ago, topazsparrow said:

The guy in question was apparently overshooting his corners a lot and crossing the yellow line. If I was there I would have got in front of him and told him to pull over so we could have a talk about it. Crossing the yellow line is death wish on a canyon road.

I have to admit, in my head when I saw the pics and initial description I was going to go there.  I decided not to but my gut feeling was correct.  Seeing the image with what appears to be a nice sweeper and the entry point of no return, it was easy to speculate crossing the yellow and far to late an apex that sent the rider into the mountain side.

It is as well if I may add not your fault for someone else's lack of experience.  Lessons to be learned? If lead or sweep rider, all riders in between must be instructed on pace of lead rider, warned about road conditions if known and what sweep is all about.  Group rides if done with less experienced riders then yes it is the responsibility of the more experience to explain what is about to happen.  Establish rules of conduct and what to do if shet happens. 

[Lone Wolf]

On 7/30/2018 at 11:48 AM, topazsparrow said:

... Gravel and back brake threw him off a highside. The bike straightened out and went airborn.

 

If your buddy still rides, he would likely benefit from this

Also this one,

and the one on delayed apex, tips for new riders, etc.

I have been riding since 1972 and still learn every day.