Recommendations For Street Suspension

[Beemer]

I gather from reading a little here and there on the forum that there are some differences between racing suspension and good suspension that's made more for every day riding, a little softer suspension it appears. I'm close to upgrading my suspension and I don't need > edit:  "race oriented suspension" so can we get a list going of good shocks that are more "street friendly", > edit: take pot-holes/bumps better.

 

Some expert opinions along with personal experiences would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for any input!

[pattonme]

do you mean rear shocks or are you using the term interchangeably with suspension in general?

 

The aftermarket rear shocks from Ohlins, Matris, Penske, K-Tech and Nitron are perfectly good on the street. I like the Nitron and Penske the best but the price on the K-Tech is very attractive and it's performance is very similar. Ohlins is clearly on the soft side of the damping curves .

 

Forks wise, either do springs and 45'ish cSt@40 oil and call it good for $100 or less or you're looking at 600 and up.

 

Out of the box, no mods, the Ohlins NIX-22 is the most street friendly provided you run a 9-11cSt@40 oil or thinner. The Matris F15K is next and since it's a full 4-valve setup (everybody else is a 2) it has the ability to outclass all comers if only the Comp leg valving wasn't so blasted wrong. If you want to run it without mods, you're going to need sub-9, I might try the Ohlins 01302 which is a 7cSt@40 first.

 

Andreani can be run as-is again if you get a 9-11 or lighter oil but if you want better compliance out of pretty much any of these you're likely going to need internal modifications sooner or later. There is a reason the suppliers make them stiff - racers spend money, and tracks are smooth  so they can get away with it. It's a total fallacy that  good suspension is properly the domain of racers on the track - tracks are nothing. The Street is the difficult environment to damp well and properly.  The reason the racers replace suspension is because OEM suspension is so badly underdamped in most cases, it can't cope with the significant chassis pitch moments. And also conditions change and easy changes are desired. No OE suspension at the FZ07 price-point has any kind of adjustment ability.

 

[Beemer]

Awesome info, it's just what I was hoping for. I was mostly concerned with the front suspension. For the roads I ride on, the stock rear shock works OK for me but it's nice to know some good options when I replace it. I might want better than just, OK. I remembered some old talk about just using beefier springs and heavier oil for a cheapo front suspension job so thanks on the refresh (specifics) there. Your input is greatly appreciated, thank you very much, sir!

[motomeek]

Just talked to our local suspension genius. For my weight, I'd be able to use the OEM stuff. 

 

We'll cut the spacer shorter and install heavier oil, and the springs are good to go. 

 

Once I have the time, I'll be making an appt. so he can teach me how to do it myself. 

 

BTW, i got new forks on my Scrambler and it's UH-MAZING. So I can't wait to get this done. 

[gregjet]

Motomeek, if you are light enough to use the stock springs( or lighter) , then heavier oil is going to make the front overly stiff compression damping worse ( though it may improve the rebound) . At least that's what I remember from pattonme's research. He may correct me.

[pattonme]

I don't know what the "tipping point" is between spring rate, wheel velocity and "too harsh on bumps" is with the stock damper rods. 0.88kg/mm springs aren't the same thing as 0.7 or 0.75 so I don't think you'll run into the viscosity wall. Try the 40-45 range and see. If the comp is too much then find a handy drill bit and make one of the stock holes (6mm??) into a 9.5mm (3/8") and retest. Or instead fill with something in the low 30's for round 2 and see if the rebound holds up. I don't believe it will.

 

Granted it was a very short ride but pounding the wheel over some gnarly surfaces on WanaBe's bike wasn't objectionable. And he has 0.95kg/mm.

[fzar]

To get my head around some of the jargen thats been discussed,

On 6/9/2018 at 1:25 PM, pattonme said:

9-11cSt@40 oil or thinner.

9-11 cst@40, is the a 9-11 centistrokerating @ 40degrees celcius? and is the centistroke rating another way of determining the fluidity of the fork oil at said temp. I'm trying to figure this out and googled it to see what it meant, I feel like I was listening to a politician! I feel like I know less now than when I started. AARRGGhh.

[pattonme]

if a politician is speaking he's lying...

cSt@40C is an industry standard measure of fluid (often oils) viscosity

see https://sites.google.com/site/forksbymatt/resources/oil-list

 

[FZ07R WaNaB]

1 hour ago, pattonme said:

Granted it was a very short ride but pounding the wheel over some gnarly surfaces on WanaBe's bike wasn't objectionable. And he has 0.95kg/mm.

Actually it is 92.5 (but who's counting), and it is so much better than stock. I've got over 200 miles on the current front end, and it rides really well. I don't feel the small bumps (where I use to), and the bigger ones are very doable where when it was stock, they would jar the heck out of me.

[fzar]

Should SAG numbers be part of this or is the point just to make it more dealable? I ask because in the next week I'll be pulling my forks to see how they are after a incident, to see if they are true and straight, they look fine, feel fine. I think it would be a good time to get my SAG numbers before I pull them off, and seeming as my bike is a 2015 with almost 12,000 miles on it, maybe its a good time to change the fork oil and consider with SAG numbers in hand if I need to go with a different oil, and/or spring. I'm 165 lbs in my birthday suit, 5'8 tall. 

 

The previous owner changed the rebound on the stock shock rebound to the 6 position and if memory serves me correctly the factory set it at the 3 position! I'm not feeling anything from the shock that makes me think I need to make changes to it. I do like a stiffer front end with more feel, as I find the bike absorbing a lot of energy, maybe too much ,as in diving forward under brakes and understeer when leaned over.

 

YES I know I could twist the wrist to light the back tire to counter the under steer, I just don't ride like that. (Anymore , not since the 90's)

 

[pattonme]

rider and bike sag values *together* are indicators of correctness of spring rate and preload amount. Replace the oil, buy some 1" PVC from the hardware store and cut to suit. At 180lbs in gear the OE springs are fine but I think you'll find there is rather too much preload. I would cut your first set of spacers at 10mm shorter than the factory tube. If you want, get some Chineseum adjustable preload fork caps. There's a thread or two around here on that subject.

 

what magical rear shock do you have that has rebound? That big collar is spring preload. 

[fzar]

9 hours ago, pattonme said:

what magical rear shock do you have that has rebound? That big collar is spring preload

The magical 1 that came from Yamaha that doesn't exist, My bad.. I got that mistaken. What oil should I use? and what am I supposed to be doing with the 1" PVC? Where are the spacer's to be cut 10mm shorter than the factory tube supposed to go? I assuming that the 1" PVC is the spacer your talking about. Iv'e seen the threads for the chineseum adjustable preload fork caps, if as you say I'll find theres to much preload in the OE springs would these Chineseum's caps be for backing it off preload?

I apologize for the numerous questions, @pattonme that I'm sure is common knowledge to you and maybe most others, I have no experience with suspension. I'm sure its a situation that will make more sense if if I just get in there and take a look at whats going on. Thanks for the information and I appreciate your input and time spent responding.

[pattonme]

40 minutes ago, fzar said:

Where are the spacer's to be cut 10mm shorter than the factory tube supposed to go? I assuming that the 1" PVC is the spacer your talking about. Iv'e seen the threads for the chineseum adjustable preload fork caps, if as you say I'll find theres to much preload in the OE springs would these Chineseum's caps be for backing it off preload?

I apologize for the numerous questions, @pattonme that I'm sure is common knowledge to you and maybe most others, I have no experience with suspension. I'm sure its a situation that will make more sense if if I just get in there and take a look at whats going on. Thanks for the information and I appreciate your input and time spent responding.

I'll let you Google "making motorcycle fork spring spacers". Under the OE cap is a thin-wall steel spacer. Cut your new PVC ones shorter. If you go with the adjustable fork caps you'll have to compute what the correct length needs to be. I would start with a setup that gives you 7mm of preload with the adjuster backed off all the way. 

 

Scroll up for the oil list link. Buy what's available in your local market in the viscosity range.

[MT27]

Here is a good article on damper rod forks. 

http://racetech.com/articles/CartridgeForks.htm 

[gregjet]

One little point is that a fork does NOT have to have a cartridge to function properly. You can put the same "cartridge"  valving setup into a ordinary fork without a discrete internal cartridge , it's just that a cartridge is easier to manufacture. I think it was Showa that made this type of fork for Kwaka ( pattonme will correct me if necessary).

One of the things you get with cartridge forks is much smaller pistons, which means much smaller damping areas , bigger variations in flow rate and assosiated viscosity changes, higher pressures,  and bigger hysteresis problems ( though they have been at the problem fixing for these for a long time and have it pretty good).

So the identifier cartridge/damper rod is a little misleading. What you do get with the "cartridge"  though is the ability to make an USD fork which has a host of other advantages.