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Twins Cup Race....


blackout

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Craig Mapstone
Upstate New York

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Can't see it. blocked for copyright reasons...

Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

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19 hours ago, gregjet said:

Can't see it. blocked for copyright reasons...

I can still see it, odd.

Craig Mapstone
Upstate New York

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topazsparrow

Looks like these bikes are pretty heavily modified. The lead FZ-07 has inverted forks at the very least :(

 

It'll be interesting to see how the new KTM shakes up this circuit.

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1 hour ago, topazsparrow said:

Looks like these bikes are pretty heavily modified. The lead FZ-07 has inverted forks at the very least :(

 

It'll be interesting to see how the new KTM shakes up this circuit.

Not sure if USD forks are a huge advantage on our lighter, slower bikes.  You surely would not want to put 43mm USD forks on these bikes as some flex is good.  As far as the rear suspension, you are only allowed to change the shock and link.  The swingarm needs to be stock and pickup locations need to be stock. 

 

The 790 KTM will most likely need ECU restrictions to remain fair since it's displacement is so high.   This is mentioned as an option in the rules and is already done in the 300 Junior class since those engines vary in size and configuration.

Craig Mapstone
Upstate New York

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USD's big advantage is lack of torsional flex. Conventional forks twist under steering load. Though your point about lateral flex is valid on ultraload bikes , I suspect the  defelection effect at the lean anlges and the speed loads would be insufficient to get a useful effect and even if it did it might be too much to be advantageous or controllable.

When I changed the forks to usd on my ER6 they were lighter than the stock forks. The steering was noticeably more direct even on short low speed circuits.

 

On the swingarm, often the rules allow things like swingarms to be changed if another swingarm was fitted to a similar model ( eg the longer tracer 07 swingarm),. At least that is what can happen here. Though I suspect the shorter stock one would be better for racing anyway.

Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

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@gregjet you're blocked because you're IP is from Aus. Check your PM for a way to get around that.

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22 hours ago, topazsparrow said:

Looks like these bikes are pretty heavily modified. The lead FZ-07 has inverted forks at the very least :(

 

It'll be interesting to see how the new KTM shakes up this circuit.

Thats a Andy Palmer (APMOTOARTS) prepped bike. I know they were building and selling FZ-07's race prepped with R6 front ends, no idea whats up front on that bike being raced.

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31 minutes ago, firstyammerha said:

Small class- where's the Kawasakis? They seem to be so popular in European racing.

No idea, I do know that on the road racing circuit the displacement is 650 c.c so no FZ's or sorry MT-07's racing.

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firstyammerha

Fzar, that is in Europe I guess you're saying. In this film clip there's an FZ apparently so must be a rule adjustment here. Still no Z650's were mentioned by the commentators so what gives? Nobody running Kawasakis? Why? 

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22 minutes ago, firstyammerha said:

Fzar, that is in Europe I guess you're saying. In this film clip there's an FZ apparently so must be a rule adjustment here. Still no Z650's were mentioned by the commentators so what gives? Nobody running Kawasakis? Why? 

I don't know why, but the Kawasaki twin is not popular for racing in the U.S..  It was the dominant bike at the Northwest 200 in northern Ireland.

Craig Mapstone
Upstate New York

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firstyammerha

Thanks blackout. Racing is expensive but you'd think Kawasaki would transfer some of the European knowledge back here. Kawasaki does AMA dirt track racing in the U.S. if I remember correctly. Wouldn't that technology transfer to road racing? Just wondering what the story is. Race on Sunday, sell on Monday you know.

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4 hours ago, firstyammerha said:

Thanks blackout. Racing is expensive but you'd think Kawasaki would transfer some of the European knowledge back here. Kawasaki does AMA dirt track racing in the U.S. if I remember correctly. Wouldn't that technology transfer to road racing? Just wondering what the story is. Race on Sunday, sell on Monday you know.

Kawasaki is a funny duck.  They lost Bobby Fong to a Yamaha team this year in Motoamerica because they would not fund the Kawasaki team that Fong had been riding for with great results.  They wouldn't even sell the team bikes at cost.  Well that's what I heard anyways.  

Craig Mapstone
Upstate New York

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The whole question of what bikes show up on grids where is more complex than you realize. What follows is a much condensed and over simplified overview of how this works.

 

The FZ07 for instance is a very competitive platform in the US where most clubs/Orgs allow it in lightweight classes based on cc and/performance criteria. Not the case overseas. The problem tho is that yamaha does not support it with contingency money like they do for the R3/R6/R1 platforms. At our track in our club for instance they offer $15,300 in payouts but nothing for the FZ. Suzuki offers even more contingency money and does include the SV650 but only in supersport trim. Similarly Kawasaki offers money and includes the ninja, but not at all tracks or at all levels of racing. Unfortunately the Ninja is not a competitive platform here in supersport classes due to its weight/geometery/power, not the case in higher classes where rules allow modifications such as Irish road racing for instance. Its also supported by the rules package etc. It's a nightmare sometimes to figure out. In addition to any prize money you might win, you could make $500 (club level) manufacturers contingency for a first (up to $3000 in MotoAmerica), $1000 for a track record Pirelli bounty, $100 for this or that sponsors money etc. Some fast guys pay for their racing program even at the club level, win 10 races make $5000. The if-then flow chart can be like read tax law but there is money in there if you're willing to muck it out.

 

This is by no means the definitive text on the issue but I hope this helps sheds some light on it.

 

Addendum: I failed to mention one manufacturer may limit it to 2 year old machines or newer, the next one to 10 year old machines.  In MotoAmerica for instance Yamaha homologated the FZ since inception, Suzuki the SV back to 2003, Kawasaki the Ninja650 back to 2012.

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51 minutes ago, mossrider said:

The whole question of what bikes show up on grids where is more complex than you realize. What follows is a much condensed and over simplified overview of how this works.

 

The FZ07 for instance is a very competitive platform in the US where most clubs/Orgs allow it in lightweight classes based on cc and/performance criteria. Not the case overseas. The problem tho is that yamaha does not support it with contingency money like they do for the R3/R6/R1 platforms. At our track in our club for instance they offer $15,300 in payouts but nothing for the FZ. Suzuki offers even more contingency money and does include the SV650 but only in supersport trim. Similarly Kawasaki offers money and includes the ninja, but not at all tracks or at all levels of racing. Unfortunately the Ninja is not a competitive platform here in supersport classes due to its weight/geometery/power, not the case in higher classes where rules allow modifications such as Irish road racing for instance. Its also supported by the rules package etc. It's a nightmare sometimes to figure out. In addition to any prize money you might win, you could make $500 (club level) manufacturers contingency for a first (up to $3000 in MotoAmerica), $1000 for a track record Pirelli bounty, $100 for this or that sponsors money etc. Some fast guys pay for their racing program even at the club level, win 10 races make $5000. The if-then flow chart can be like read tax law but there is money in there if you're willing to muck it out.

 

This is by no means the definitive text on the issue but I hope this helps sheds some light on it.

 

Addendum: I failed to mention one manufacturer may limit it to 2 year old machines or newer, the next one to 10 year old machines.  In MotoAmerica for instance Yamaha homologated the FZ since inception, Suzuki the SV back to 2003, Kawasaki the Ninja650 back to 2012.

 Thanks for weighing in on this subject @mossrider I’m sure it is, like you said a lot more complicated than one might think. The contingency money is always a grey area for me to wrap my head around. Anyway all I can say for sure is that I’m happy Moto America has opened their doors to new classes and I for one am glad the like s of those guys racing get the opportunity to do so, now if they could get some tv time that would be awesome. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well shiver me timbers there's a Kwacker on the grid at Laguna round! And in 4th on the grid.

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On 6/23/2018 at 9:47 AM, mossrider said:

Well shiver me timbers there's a Kwacker on the grid at Laguna round! And in 4th on the grid.

Yes, Daniele Diaz.  She's extremely fast and was on a borrowed bike. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Update:

 

Stock 1000 and Twins are now going to be officially Facebook live streamed.

 

Yamaha has added contingency for the Twins class in Moto America this season.

1st $1,000

2nd $750

3rd -$500

 

Still nothing for the FZ/MT 07 for club racing but it's a start!

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We're signed up and ready for the Pittsburg round. Excited that there is good chance we'll be fielding a 2 bike effort if Harry and his bumblebee FZ07r, seen elsewhere in the track portion of this forum, can go too!

Giddyup.  

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11 hours ago, mossrider said:

We're signed up and ready for the Pittsburg round. Excited that there is good chance we'll be fielding a 2 bike effort if Harry and his bumblebee FZ07r, seen elsewhere in the track portion of this forum, can go too!

Giddyup.  

Awesome stuff!  Good luck at Pittrace.  How was the Pittrace testing the other weekend? 

Craig Mapstone
Upstate New York

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Just now, blackout said:

Awesome stuff!  Good luck at Pittrace.  How was the Pittrace testing the other weekend? 

We're gonna be tough, he was rocking it. We're right there knocking at the door of the previous WERA expert race winning time. Should be competitive and have game for the race. We expect some awesome competition and are in it to win it but realistically shooting for a front half finish. 

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