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armourbl

Anyone lower a FZ07 yet?

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gregjet

That is what I was looking for in the first place. Too late as I bought the Australian raising/lowering one. The one directly above looks so much like the original except longer struts and seems to be really well made. No one would ever know the bike was lowered. Good find. The Xtreme creations one is more expensive but is lighter and offers the 4 options for height though.
NOTE: removal of the original bearings AND the replacement is NOT a beginner mechanics job. It requires tools that most low level wrenchers don't have. Any machine shop will prob do it for relatively inexpensive, if you take the link off and take the old and new to the shop. BTW the bolt on the frame end, requires the removal of the footpeg plates and the swingarm nut removal and partial withdrawal of the swingarm bolt. MAKE sure the bike has a stable support while you are taking out the link.
 


Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

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squintyeyes
The biggest concerns with lowering a bike in general are: Lowering the rear only will increase the rake of the forks. This will make the bike more stable in a straight line and harder to turn ( or increase the lean angle for the same steering input). On this bike it will increase the risk of bottoming the belly and more importantly rearbias the weight on a badly rear biased bike with very soft badly damped rear shock. The change in geometry does not necessarily make the bike less safe ( in fact can make a bike more safe) only makes a change in the turning charastics. The big problem is that the rear bias decreases the front tyre load on a front that is already vague. However the increase in confidence and ability to not lose footing when stationary is a big plus.
Lowering the front as well will help rebias the front tyre load, lower the seat height a bit more but keep an eye on the belly ground clearance as this is a reasonably low bike to start with.
Extreme creations ( Australian) ( http://www.store.extremecreations.com.au/mt-07-jack-up-plates) make a beautiful raising lowering link with 4 positions( +25mm,0,-25mm, -35). It needs the stock bearings transferred ( or you could buy a second set) and they are not easy to get out and back in so a job for very experienced DIY well equipped or a pro. I bought one to raise the rear to get more front weight bias and improve the turn in, but it will lower just as well. NOTE: If you are useing it to lower my opinion is that you use a spring that will be much stiffer and allow lower preload so initial settle will allow the seat height to actually be lower but won't bottom as easy. A proper shock and spring designed for the rider would really be the smart way to do it.
This is the one i also bought because you can change between the different heights. I think i will try the -35mm first. How much do you think a reasonable install would be? Also this is my first paying someone else to do work for me, Will the dealership charge out the ass? How do i find a good mom and pop shop that's has experience? Just start googling and read reviews? 

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gregjet

No idea what it would cost. I did it my self but making a couple of press pieces and heating the outer . Put the bearings in the fridge before i pressed them in. Been working on my own cars and motorcycles since 1968 and have a bit of array of tools so rarely get outside work done. ECU reflash was pretty much only thing I have had done recently and there is only one place in Aus that does it, so not a lot of choice.

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Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

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bmwpowere36m3

Lowering links also effectively lower the rear spring rate... as such a spring change could be warranted based on your weight.

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basmn
I went to a shop and they had a yoshi lowering link in stock that was up around 100 bucks. It lowered it 1 3/4 inches. Seriously considering.
can you you please post a link to the yosh lowering link or a part#ed 

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gregjet

" Lowering links also effectively lower the rear spring rate... as such a spring change could be warranted based on your weight."
 
No, lowering the bike does NOT lower the spring effective spring rate if you use a these linkage replacements. It lowers it if you are silly enough to use softer springs or a spring dropper ( this is the most "un-good" way of lowering a bike). In fact , depending on the linkage geometry, changing the links it can raise the rate, usually by changing the included angle, although it will go through the same geometry as it passes the original set point. It can lower the rate if you move the shocky points. It can lower the rate if you change the relative knuckle lengths ( or raise it). In the case of the MT07 changing the captive dogbone links will not have any noticeable effect on the effective spring rate.
However after all that, for most people, the standard spring rate will be too soft anyway, so a change of springs ( and shocky as overpowering an already underdamped shock would be unwise) is usually recommended.
 
 
 


Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

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bmwpowere36m3
" Lowering links also effectively lower the rear spring rate... as such a spring change could be warranted based on your weight." 
No, lowering the bike does NOT lower the spring effective spring rate if you use a these linkage replacements. It lowers it if you are silly enough to use softer springs or a spring dropper ( this is the most "un-good" way of lowering a bike). In fact , depending on the linkage geometry, changing the links it can raise the rate, usually by changing the included angle, although it will go through the same geometry as it passes the original set point. It can lower the rate if you move the shocky points. It can lower the rate if you change the relative knuckle lengths ( or raise it). In the case of the MT07 changing the captive dogbone links will not have any noticeable effect on the effective spring rate.
However after all that, for most people, the standard spring rate will be too soft anyway, so a change of springs ( and shocky as overpowering an already underdamped shock would be unwise) is usually recommended.
 
 

Were talking about lowering the rear-end with lowering links/dog-bones, correct?
 
 
Sorry, terminology… wheel-rate will be reduced with longer than stock dog-bones or links… inverse is true for shorter ones.  Is it significant?  Well, that depends on a lot of factors.  Sometimes just dialing-in more preload will bring back your race/static sag.

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gregjet

I just put to parameters into my Tony Foale motorcycle suspension design software. The 8mm longer link will raise the wheel 26mm ( don't know what that translate to at the seat but about 22mm at the swingarm pivot). The stock effective wheel rate goes from 402 lbs to 9178. The longer one goes from 402lbs to 9077. The 8mm longer link has little effect on the spring rate with this suspension linkage geometry. The force curve of the longer link is slightly flatter than the std link so at 65mm travel the longer link is actually higher . So over all you are correct about the ultimate force being lower ( ie effectively softer spring) but in the middle it is firmer. Usually , though not always so, lowering a bike will be for a lighter rider so this may allow using the same spring.
As this bike has a ridiculously soft spring standard it may end up being OK for a lighter rider. For most (heavier) riders a stiffer spring and decent shock is the best way to go. This bike only has 130mm travel so I agree to be cautious about any softening of the effective spring rate.
I raised mine so all my data was originally for shorter links.

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Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

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pattonme

be careful kids, @gregjet has the definitive software and can spank anyone at will. You on mc-chassis list, then?


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basmn

I have lowered the rear 2". now im trying to ballance the front (lower) so i can maintain stock geometry and still have a bit of ground clearence, road test tonight (:

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gregjet

2"... Have you got enough vertical and leaned ground clearance under FULL suspension compression . Looks like 2" is gonna run the underneath and sides VERY close to the ground. Actually seen this happen in a race, right in front of me, with a very short rider who had lowered the bike a little more than that, but hit a bump in the middle of a corner and it chucked her , unceremoniously, down the track.


Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

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pattonme

careful @basmn, if you pull the forks up 2" then you've reduced fork travel by the same amount and it will have a tendency to crash into the underside of the triple clamp under moderate to heavy braking. At that point you have no suspension left and are relying on tire carcass flex. Are you really that short, or are you trying to achieve flat-foot status at rest? Good, solid touch with balls of the feet is really quite sufficient for most people. I totally understand not wanting to be on tippy-toes. I'd say shave the seat too except there isn't much to shave... Racing pad, perhaps?
 
I'd drop the front no more than an inch. You need to preserve as much travel there. Rear is less critical.


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basmn

the owner of the bike is 100lbs soaking wet and is not an aggressive rider. I did not get a chance to test ride tonight #@$# side stand switch wires were broken just under the clamp....300km on the bike and broken wires ?????? anyway we checked the suspension travel with my 200lb carcass and did not bottom anything out front or rear, so all should be good, bottom line is if it isn't proper when i test ride it all setting go back to stock, no one is going to get hurt here.

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basmn
careful @basmn, if you pull the forks up 2" then you've reduced fork travel by the same amount and it will have a tendency to crash into the underside of the triple clamp under moderate to heavy braking. At that point you have no suspension left and are relying on tire carcass flex. Are you really that short, or are you trying to achieve flat-foot status at rest? Good, solid touch with balls of the feet is really quite sufficient for most people. I totally understand not wanting to be on tippy-toes. I'd say shave the seat too except there isn't much to shave... Racing pad, perhaps? 
I'd drop the front no more than an inch. You need to preserve as much travel there. Rear is less critical.
yes ,will monitor travel very closely. the bike has to be lowered equally to try to preserve stock geometry as best as possible. not quite possible to match the front with a 2' drop in the rear but i have it dam close. by raising the forks large amounts rake and trail are affected. i understand the effects of high or low front and what they do for steering  and high speed stability, same with high or low rear, you would think they would have the same effect no matter which on you did but that is not the case . i will ride tomorrow weather permitting and post results.
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gregjet

The big problem with lowering the rear of the MT and not the front, is that it already has a tendency to run wide and the slacker forks will make it worse. The turn-in on the bike is not real good ,especially with the soft rear ( although such a light rider will possibly mitigate this). I have raised the rear and dropped the front as far as I dare ( pulled the springs out of the forks and checked clearances) in an effort to improve the turn in. Be worse for a light rider as not able to load the front as much. Not saying don't do it , just check and double check. My girlfriend is 5'3" and has the same problem with her bikes ( currently a KTM690 Duke which we have lowered).
BTM, there is a lot of clearance between the front mudguard and the tyre, if you are prepared to figure a way to lower it. Even more if you go to a 120/60( from the 120/70) tyre ( ABS not withstanding). On most bikes you can internally shorten the forks, but the MT only has 130mm travel as it is, so you don't have a lot to play with. If you ride on smooth road and she isn't aggressive rider you could probably pull em down a cm below the damping rod piston ( and some work on the damping at the same time). Even a longer or stiffer top out spring would help drop the forks a little without clearance issues.


Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

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pattonme

You can't get any stiffer on the top-out spring; it's already somewhere north of 200lb/in (3.5kg/mm).


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basmn

well i road tested last nite and well ......It;s fine...no instability at 150kph, turns in well and is stable in mid turn. Cornering on a bumpy road posed no issues and the bike went were i pointed it with no problems whatsoever. I did however bottom the muffler on 1 occassion but that was my own fault. So all in all it can be done with no ill effect, but i would only recomend it for small light riders for normal street riding, the suspension is still the weak point on this bike and shows when the lowered bike is ridden agressivly but at 200lbs i did not bottom the front or rear shocks.
here are the numbers.
lowered
50mm in the rear
37mm in the front
40mm removed from sidestand.
My overall impression of the bike ........
It;s a blast to ride..gona buy one for the bride(:

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gregjet

Basmn,
That's what we need solid testing...well done.
Still , When I dropped the springs out I got mudguard interference on full compression when I dropped the forks not very far. I apologize that I didn't measure how far but it wasn't very far. I am about to sell the MT ( LAMS) hopefully and get a proper one ( the one everyone in the rest of the world gets, that, despite repeated statements WASN'T coming to Australia, is now here. Yamaha lie!). I will suspend my development until the new one is bought.
If I were racing an MT I would look at getting it lower overall as well and would probably shorten the travel to 100-110mm ( -30 to -20mm) on the front but only for the track . That would be with leaving the rear roughly stock height. Hopefully that would help the turn in. I am surprised that you are happy with the turn in. Which tyres did you MT come with? I am beginning to suspect the Bridgies may be the wide tracking culprit, so the info would be useful to confirm or help eliminate that line of reasoning.


Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

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modmaster

Gregjet, I already know how to replace the upper link and the shock absorber but I was wondering if you could tell me how hard it is to replace the lower dogbone link like you are using from Extreme Creations. Will doing this increase the rising rate of the rear spring? I had a bad experience with replacing the upper link because it caused an extremely high tension after the first 1" or so of suspension travel. Any tips or instructions on how to replace the dogbone would be greatly appreciated.
 
modmaster
 

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gregjet

First. The bearings in the horseshoe link are a pain to work with. Not impossible but a pain. Don't bother swapping the ones in the stock link over ( like I did). It is way too much work. Buy new bearings and put em in.The Xtreme Creation one comes in two locking bits ( very nice machine work) and is relatively easier to put the bearings in.
Solid support the frame . I had a cross support from my racing VTR that held up the frame at the rear. You can't use the footplates or anything that gets in the way of the front link bolt coming out to support the bike. The bolts on the footpeg plate are put in with the world's missing supply of stud lock. Destroyed one Allen bolt getting it loose. If I remember properly you have to take the footpeg plates off to get the frame end bolt off. So have some bolts spare in case you have to replace em.
VERY easy to adjust once it's on though. Support the middle of the bike and pull the bolt out and stick it in the new hole.
 
You have to check the geometry of linkages before you mod em. Even an organization as massive as Honda can stuff it up. On one of the GP or Superbike bikes a few years ago they made a linkage that actually physically couldn't travel through a point part way through it's travel. Only had 2/3 of it's travel and handled ( obviously) frighteningly. Bet they don't do that again. Before I lost my Tony Foale software ( bricked SSD and I can't afford a new version. He sent me a new code but I can't get it to work), I did the calcs on the mT07. There is no problem and the difference at the first few inches of travel is marginal. More of a problem with the raise than the lower. Just make sure the tyre isn't bottoming on the frame stuff at 2 " lower. The upper limits are where most of the difference is. I Can't check your geometry changes because I can no longer run the calcs. I would put the shock on without the spring once all the stuff is in place with the lower , and make sure it goes through all of it's travel OK though. The links weren't designed for that end of the geometry and could be getting to physical constraints.


Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

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norwest

If someone has the measurements I have the Tony Foale software as well. gregjet look on Ebay as he used to sell it on there for considerably less money.
 
Terry

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Beemer

Here's a tip for anyone with problems planting both feet flat on the ground AND an aching inner thigh, etc. When you come to a stop you should naturally put both feet down for initial stability but right after that you can let the bike lean to one side a little more than the other, just enough so that the foot on the side you're leaning the bike towards becomes planted flat. It's not leaning so much that it's hard to hold the bike up. The other foot I just lift and rest it on the peg and you wouldn't believe the relief you give yourself when you do that. When you want to take off you just lean the bike back to the upright position and immediately get moving. It's what I do and it helps a lot towards making my rides more comfortable and longer. Sitting close to the tank every time you stop puts a lot of pressure on the inside of the legs to reach the ground and all your weight is distributed onto the crotch area which adds to the discomfort and decreases your comfort time in the saddle. Believe me, it works and after some time the process becomes natural!
 
I also like the fact that this is how Rossi says he likes to take off in races to help keep the front end down on a quick launch whcih may come in handy on the street if you suddenly have a vehicle speeding toward you.


Beemer

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gregjet

All my measurements went with the bricked SSD. I have to redo them all. That includes lowering the link to stock position so not a small job. And yes I know I should have saved them to the data drive but I hadn't.......Stupid mistake for an ex IT person.


Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

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norwest
All my measurements went with the bricked SSD. I have to redo them all. That includes lowering the link to stock position so not a small job. And yes I know I should have saved them to the data drive but I hadn't.......Stupid mistake for an ex IT person.
Well that sucks, I know you won't forget next time though. 
Terry
 

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modmaster

I have lowered my FZ by 3/4" by purchasing a custom made lowering shock. It worked out great. I recently sold the bike but saved the shock. It's made by Wilbers in Germany and was made for my weight 190 to 200lbs. It's for sale in the classifieds on this forum if your interested.
 
modmaster

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