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faffi

Engine damage

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faffi
Posted (edited)

This is from an Argentinian who is a member of another forum I frequent.

 

Quote

 

This happened to my ZX-10R. I switched to Mobil1 full synthetic car oil. It was around 300 miles on the engine. Almost 1mm was wiped out from at least 3 cam lobes, and all 16 tappets were destroyed. The engine was checked and dynoed right before the oil change and it was fine. I detected this as I noticed a decay in power that was confirmed then on the dyno. There was no apparent reason for the power drop so, once back from the dyno at home, I decided to open it for inspection. 

 

Kam sammenlignet.jpg

Kam sammenlinging.jpg

Kam med skade.jpg

Kam ok.jpg

Kam skadet.jpg

Edited by faffi

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Beemer

So did everything else in the engine wear down so drastically as well?

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norcal616

Car oil?!? 

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  • Haha 1

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DewMan

Not saying it isn't possible but if you only have one cam lobe that's prematurely worn I'd suspect the cam possibly being defective. Perhaps a problem in the hardening process?

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faffi

All 16 valve shim retainers were damaged, and 3 lobes.

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fzar
4 hours ago, faffi said:

I switched to Mobil1 full synthetic car oil. It was around 300 miles on the engine. Almost 1mm was wiped out from at least 3 cam lobes,

@norcal616car oil? WTF. 1mm from 3 cam lobes @DewMan I only see one being shown in the pictures, I agree with you both on this.

 

 

The engine was checked and dynoed right before the oil change and it was fine

 

Putting a bike on a dyno with 300 miles on it is strange to me, all I can say is this information been given is pretty vague. Is it 300 miles he/she put on it from brand new showroom? I doubt it or it would be back to the dealership no need to pull anything. I can't divulged into making anything from this, as I said its vague information to me.

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rick

So why does one cam have damage and the other not?

 

Have a buddy who had a ZRX1200. He was always worried about the cam pitting history that apparently a common issue with those big Kaw motors. Considering the power his bike made (individual K&Ns and an Akra pipe), I don't think it saw red line much on public roads and it never got dynoed, yet still had some cam pitting that appeared early, but didn't get worse over 65k miles. As he's been an Amsoil devotee for a long, long time, I doubt the bike ever saw Mobil 1. 

 

You can find loads of cam pitting issues on the Concours forums as well - not exactly a race bike. Though there's tons of theories, no one but Kawasaki really knows why and they'll never admit to a problem - that's not likely oil - especially if some cams wear and some don't within the same motor. .  

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mjh937

If this was caused by the oil I expect we would be seeing a lot more problems as Mobil 1 is fairly popular.  I do not know what would have caused it, but I suspect it would have happened no matter what oil he had used. 

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r1limited

Here is my take on it and we all know I am clarvoient enough to see the real problem

 

BULLSHIT, that cam was already toast before M1 was put in.

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rider

If that's all the damage it doesn't sound like an oil problem though it may be.  It sounds like an oil distribution problem.  Even using the cheap generic oil would likely cause damage in more places - rings, bearings, etc...  It just has to get where it's supposed to.  I could be way off, too.

We just used whatever we had when we were kids.  Mix and match whatever we could scrounge up.  Even used old oil to top off a time or two.  (Our source of income was mowing yards and picking up coke bottles and such, so...)  I'm not advising anyone ever do this, just saying we did it.

But, ours weren't high performance bikes by any means either, just old  hand-me-down dirt and street bikes.  Don't recall any wear problems.  And we rode em like we stole em.

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cyow5

Can someone with more experience tell if that wear pattern is even realistic? The dotted-ness looks false to me since everything thing I have personally see was more of a straight line across the lobe. That pitting doesn't look like anything a tappet could do unless it had a protrusion on it at the mating surface. 

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r1limited
25 minutes ago, cyow5 said:

Can someone with more experience tell if that wear pattern is even realistic? The dotted-ness looks false to me since everything thing I have personally see was more of a straight line across the lobe. That pitting doesn't look like anything a tappet could do unless it had a protrusion on it at the mating surface. 

It appears to be pitted scoring.  This can be caused by dirty oil, or other particles getting caught up.  Since we do not see the bucket it could be the bucket started to crack or fell apart, that can be caused by an improperly shimmed bucket.  I still call Bull on the description in the pic from agantiner micaneck

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pattonme

cam lobe oil is low pressure. Now if the crank plain bearings were scored to hell and back then that would be confirmation of oil pressure problem (low or blocked). It has NOTHING to do with the oil as such.

 

There's 2 bad lobes pictured. I'm with R1, the camshaft was not hardened properly or the clearance was set wrong (or aftermarket tappet springs were used) and instead of following/ramping, the tip was crashing hard into the bucket. Cams go thru hell so metallurgy has to be spot on. Normally the tips 'flake' but seeing these with score marks my money is the bucket grenaded as well. 

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rick

A lot of the online speculation was a change in the profile or faulty hardening. 

 

It's been a while since I saw my friends cams. My recollection was that they weren't as bad, but they also weren't exactly smooth. And yeah, it wasn't scoring, but little pits. 

 

And if I recall from the reading i did when he 1st talked about this, there was no consistency to whether it was intake or exhaust. 

 

Chevy wouldn't put Mobil 1 into a 600 hp Vette motor if the stuff was the cause of ugly wear. Gonna guess Cadillac also specs M1 for their big V8s.

 

 

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gregjet

I will add another with a feeling that it doesn't look like an oil problem ( unless there was contamination in the oil off course...or the funnel used to put it in the motor). Still it doesn't look like wear but some sort of pitting. Poor hardface adhesion, perhaps? Granular problems with the substrate? Even possible steel grain contamination or crystal boundary problems below the hardfacing?

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