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pattonme

Bitubo JBH dissected, ridden and rated

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pattonme

I'd guess $70'ish. It's not materials but rather Lathe time that's the expensive component. The tap alone is $40 but that'll amortize out over a few kits.

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topazsparrow
30 minutes ago, pattonme said:

I'd guess $70'ish. It's not materials but rather Lathe time that's the expensive component. The tap alone is $40 but that'll amortize out over a few kits.

Sounds pretty reasonable considering the overall cost already invested. I imagine shipping would be cheap given the size of the components as well.

 

 

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pattonme
1 hour ago, topazsparrow said:

Sounds pretty reasonable considering the overall cost already invested. I imagine shipping would be cheap given the size of the components as well.

somewhere between $7-15 depending if just the small parts or the tubes are involved.

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poida

Nice work on the dissection and write up. 

I've got the JBH on my MT-07 so I'll be interested in trying out your kit when it's all finalized.

 

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Mr.Puss

 Last season I bought these jbh cartridges and the XZE11 rear to replace stock but still haven had time to get them installed.

Are they dangerous? People seemed to like them before, whats the deal??   Im not riding the track, just casual street. Doesnt sound good what Im reading here.

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bellissimoto
13 hours ago, Mr.Puss said:

 Last season I bought these jbh cartridges and the XZE11 rear to replace stock but still haven had time to get them installed.

Are they dangerous? People seemed to like them before, whats the deal??   Im not riding the track, just casual street. Doesnt sound good what Im reading here.

I agree.  Out of the 25 sets I've sold, only 2 have had an issue (that I know of anyway).  The first one was the gentleman received incorrect spring rates for his weight (we fixed that issue and customer loved them afterward), and the other set had a legit issue with the way the fork caps were assembled.  The components were fine, but after they were assembled correctly, all was good.

 

So if there are now issues arising, please let me know.  I CAN say that I've been selling a ton of these to the R3 crowd as well, and they rave about them.  I recently switched to Bitubo for my R3 racebike, and immediately went 2 seconds faster.

 

So again, my experience with Bitubo has been stellar, if your's hasn't been, I need to know about it so I can bring it to Bitubo's attention.

 

Thanks everyone.

 

:)

 

- Paul

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pattonme

just ordered the pop-off shims, springs, and tophats from Racetech. $10/per leg. 

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Advmgn
Posted (edited)

Buy a kit to improve your suspension only to have to turn around and have someone fix it by replacing parts before you ever even ride it it?

 

No thanks.

Edited by Advmgn

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bellissimoto
13 hours ago, Advmgn said:

Buy a kit to improve your suspension only to have to turn around and have someone fix it by replacing parts before you ever even ride it it?

 

No thanks.

Agreed, which is why we are looking into the situation...

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topazsparrow
1 hour ago, bellissimoto said:

Agreed, which is why we are looking into the situation...

As someone who recently bought front and rear suspension from Bitubo through you guys, what kind of outcome might be expected?

 

My rear shock showed up with a leak and I had to send it back to you guys for repair - which you were really good about, but combined with the concerns about the front end now.. it's a bit of a black eye on bitubo for our bike seems like.

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bellissimoto
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, topazsparrow said:

As someone who recently bought front and rear suspension from Bitubo through you guys, what kind of outcome might be expected?

 

My rear shock showed up with a leak and I had to send it back to you guys for repair - which you were really good about, but combined with the concerns about the front end now.. it's a bit of a black eye on bitubo for our bike seems like.

 

 

 

 

I do remember that shock, but it was a while back.  There were some drops of oil in the packaging you discovered if I remember correctly.  Wasn't sure if it was just upon assembly or if was actually leaking, and when it came to our attention we took care of it right away like you said.

 

As far as the front end is concerned, I wouldn't be.  You haven't had any problems with yours have you?  If you have, or for that matter anyone else, please contact me immediately so we can take care of it.

 

As far as the outcome is concerned, Bitubo wants to remedy the issue if there is one.  Their initial fix was to answer Matt's technical questions (he's a tech savvy guy after all, and his whole business centers around "fixing" or improving other manufacturers' products), and Bitubo is also going to send him some new springs to try, as the impression that was left was that Matt's system was to harsh.

 

And please don't misunderstand my comment in parenthesis, that is not a dig on Matt at all.  Matt and I are friends, he's been to the shop, we broke bread together.  Matt knows his stuff for sure, and offers a valuable service to improve components for individualized needs.

 

Which is why Bitubo wants to work with him to solve what ever issues he's having. 

 

But please keep this in perspective.  When you send components to a specialized tuner, the tuner will ALWAYS find improvements.  For someone like Matt, he has the skills to improve products for individualized needs, but it doesn't always mean the base product as delivered isn't good, just means it can be improved upon in certain cases.

 

It's not unlike other brands of suspension...pick one.  Ohlins is well regarded at the top of the food chain in racing circles, but what people don't know is that the Ohlins products as delivered for a customer's bike is NOT the same Ohlins product that ends up in the hands of a racer who has a suspension tuner.  The tuner will always do their tweaks to improve upon if they can, but the average customer that installed them as-is will be over-the-moon and never know the difference.

 

In regards to Matt's cartridges, Bitubo is keen on working with him to fix whatever issues he's having.  Bitubo has certain parameters they use to determine how they build and customize each kit for the individual.  These parameters scale accordingly with different rider and spring rates.  Once outside normalcy (for Bitubo), the scale is less linear, and this could be the cause of this particular issue.

 

It's actually ironic that Matt is having an issue with his set, as he is in possibly the best position to work with Bitubo to help sort it all out if in fact the base product as delivered was defective or outside the normalcy (for Bitubo).

 

:)

 

- Paul

Edited by bellissimoto
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FZ07R WaNaB
2 hours ago, bellissimoto said:

It's actually ironic that Matt is having an issue with his set, as he is in possibly the best position to work with Bitubo to help sort it all out if in fact the base product as delivered was defective or outside the normalcy (for Bitubo).

 

Don't forget from my previous posting that Matt is not the only one having a problem with the JBH cartridges. My cartridges were extremely stiff as well. I'm fortunate that I live 25 minutes away from Matt, and had him install my completely stock/not tampered with cartridges. I noticed the harshness immediately, and on bad pavement, it was borderline dangerous. I, too, want to see this problem straightened out.

 

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bellissimoto
Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, FZ07R WaNaB said:

 

Don't forget from my previous posting that Matt is not the only one having a problem with the JBH cartridges. My cartridges were extremely stiff as well. I'm fortunate that I live 25 minutes away from Matt, and had him install my completely stock/not tampered with cartridges. I noticed the harshness immediately, and on bad pavement, it was borderline dangerous. I, too, want to see this problem straightened out.

 

 

 

Yes Sir, and if I'm not mistaken, both your set and Matt's set are the ones outside the normalcy (for Bitubo), which is even more reason for Bitubo to work with Matt to alleviate any issues, since it seems outside these parameters their formula doesn't scale in a linear fashion (so it seems). 

 

As soon as we get more info, I'll pass it on, but so far, everyone else that has fell within their range has had very positive results.

 

:)

 

- Paul

Edited by bellissimoto

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topazsparrow

Sorry to pile on, but mine are quite stiff as well.

 

I'm not suspension guru so I've kept quiet about it in case it's just ignorance on my part - and it may still be. But for sake of additional data, my front end is pretty stiff as well.

 

With the preload backed all the way off as far as it would go, and the compression at two clicks from the softest setting, it's still pretty jarring at highspeed. Using a zip tie on the front fork, it's got about 1 inch or a bit more left until it runs out of tube - though I'm not sure where the bump stop is. It seems to get more jarring the longer I ride it as well.

 

For the time being, i'm assuming the spring rate is just too high and not that there's anything defective with the unit. Finding out more will require me to take it to a suspension shop to see what they think and if lowering the spring rate would help.

 

It's still better than stock though - particularly the rear shock!

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pattonme
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, bellissimoto said:

and his whole business centers around "fixing" or improving other manufacturers' products

Maybe I'm word-smithing here but that was NOT what I set out to do. The Matris F15K, the Andreani, Nitron TVT, the Ohlins NIX-30 and NIX-22, GP Suspension's GP25, the K-Tech IDS20, and most recently the JBH I bought for my personal use and professional curiosity. To be honest I'm getting tired of doing the in-house GSXR retrofit because it takes so much time to do each one and my thru-put is pretty rotten because my day job is taking up so much of my time. And now with a plethora of sub-$600 kits out there I was hoping they were up to the task.

 

I've ridden all of these products and nearly all have paid a visit or few to the shock dyno. Some I made only minor changes to (eg. really thin oil) while others have had their pistons flipped or replaced and valving reworked. All because in my personal opinion the as-delivered state was some degree of "unacceptable/unlivable", some more egregiously so than others. Admittedly my threshold for "good to acceptable" is probably much more picky than your casual consumer who has only ever experienced Jap4 OEM suspension and since it hasn't killed him yet, doesn't recognize the issue. I tune for the street where real bumps happen, not the track where the predominantly smooth surface allows even rotten suspension to appear decent. Until you go ride Nelson Ledges...

 

It's telling that there are numerous reports of harshness on the street with eg. the Andreani across a variety bikes their product is used in. Other tuners around the world are recently likewise making changes to the kit before handing it to the consumer. Every single Matris F15K that I've sold in stock guise has come back with the user requesting fixes to the compression. Are there some of them out there on the race tracks and people are just happy with them? No doubt. Everyone not on this board who's never heard of me or read my thread on the matter, riding in perfect happiness? Sure, why not. But people are finding me thru Google for non-FZ07 bikes asking for a solution because they are unhappy with the Matris or Andreani kit for their ride. Heck even racers are reaching out for help.

 

Some products are quickly apparent to be unsuitable for street use as delivered from the factory. I would unfortunately put WaNaB's JBH experience in that category. But let me quickly point out this might be a case of a bad unit (eg. too much air pressure in cartridge). The matter is being pursued with Bellissimoto's help and the Bitubo factory.

 

Edited by pattonme
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