Suspension for 2018 MT

[Dharma]

So I'm new to the esoteric magic that is motorcycle suspension.  This shet is baffling and I'd love some advice from you wizards out there.  

 

I recently bought an 2018 MT07.  I'm 5'11" and weigh around 205-210 with gear. I commute 20 miles to work one way about 2-4 times per week (includes some freeway like roads and some back roads) and ride relatively aggressively on the streets though-out the week, including some scenic mountain twisties.  Many of the roads were I live are exceptionally shitty.  I don't plan on hitting the track much, maybe a hand full of times per year, max. I do ride with a partner on board frequently (couple times a week for shorter rides).  

 

Finances are not a problem.  I'm more interested in finding what is ride for me on this bike in my situation.  

 

I've been looking at Ohlins, penske, and nitron.  I've gotten much contradictory advice about what I need, want, etc, for both the shock and forks (double clicker?  height adjustment? damper rods vs cartridge kit?)  I've briefly looked into the tech and info behind suspension and it's a bit overwhelming.  

 

The guy I'm going to for help with a bunch of mods has recommended the nitron NTR-2 for the shock and the ohlin's cartridge kit for the front.  Unfortunately, ohlin's fork doesn't come with height adjustment or compression  and nitron doesn't make a cartridge kit for my bike yet with no ETA in site (they're "working on it").  Part of my brain will be upset that my shock doesn't match my fork suspension but I think, functionally, this might be a decent set up for me with a lot of adjustability.  The other option is to go with Penske's double clicker and cartridge kit.  Mixed reviews. 

 

Thoughts?  Ideas?  Ad hominem remarks?  Any/all would be appreciated.   

[Cruizin]

Tagging @pattonme to assist you. He is our resident suspension guru. 

[Dharma]

Ah, great.  Thanks.  Gurus needed. 

[gregjet]

There are at least 3 VERY good suspension people on this forum, of which pattonme is one.

If you are not tracking it though, lots of adjustment becomes redundant pretty quick. Lot of money for the extra adjustment which makes it easier at the initial tuning stages then , on the road, you usually find you don't touch it much. The thing about road is the huge range of suspension conditions you will encounter and no setup will do it all.

YES you do need to fine tune it, but a little extra effort will save you a lot of money.

PLUS, if you don't understand suspension well , lots of adjustments can lead to lots of misadjustments, as suspension can be counter-intuitive. Take the advice of GOOD tuners. Then leave it.

[mjh937]

I would not worry about matching manufacturers.  I have a Nitron R1 shock and Matris F15K forks and am very happy.  The shock made the biggest difference, so I would start with that if you do not do both ends at the same time.  The R1 is not as adjustable as many options, but I have been very happy with it.  It did take a bit of time to get the forks dialed in but even the baseline settings I started with were way better than stock and I have it set up great now.  As gregjet says I doubt I will mess with it any more now. 

[stickshift]

I wouldn't bother with full adjustability for that type of riding. The ohlins shock is great, makes a significant improvement over stock.

 

Then get the cartridges to match.

[Cruizin]

The biggest thing I try to achieve with any bike I own is to get the suspension where I can set the sag for my weight/ height. A lot of times this is simply respring/revalve the the forks and shock. 

[Dharma]

Thank you for all the info, everyone.  

 

When considering the ohlins shock, I was dissapointed that there was no compression or height adjustment which is what I would get with either the Penske or nitron.  People who know a bit about me and my riding and a lot about suspension seem to think that’s important (a few mechanics and dealers I’ve been talking to).  Others, like stick shift, don’t think it would be a big deal.  Can any one explain while those two things may, or may not be, important for me?

 

I could see myself finding my favorite settings for commmute, aggressive street and mountain twisties, and then passenger on board riding.  In an ideal world I would figure that out and apply it but I certainly recognize that more adjustability might mean, initially, more things to screw up.  

 

Cruisin, sag would be adjustable with all these options, no?

 

 

[norcal616]

a good book is Race Tech Suspension Bible...

 

KTech, Bitubio, Cogent Dynamics, ForksByMatt, Matris, Nitron, Stoltec, Penske, Ohlins, Norwest ...

[blackout]

I have a Nitron R3 and K-tech fork Cartridges.  I most likely only needed the R2.  I have heard nothing but good about k-tech cartridges and I like mine.  I went to Hordpower for them.

 

Height adjustment is nice because raising the rear helps with cornering,  but changing the link length is what most do.  AP Motoarts sells a shorter link.  I made myself an adjustable one.

[pattonme]

21 hours ago, Dharma said:

 I'm 5'11" and weigh around 205-210 with gear. .... I do ride with a partner on board frequently (couple times a week for shorter rides).  

You'll want a spring on the heavier end of the range and a quick way to add/remove preload. 

 

> Finances are not a problem.  

cha-CHING!!

 

"Step right up, sir and for the trifle sum of nigh $2500 you will have a trusty steed that will float over rubble like it's not even there, and corner so well it will be the envy of Rossi himself. I hear they've been having a spot of trouble lately. Don't be surprised if your mobile rings and it's a fast-talking, animated voice with a bit of Italian 'whatsya say' sing-song. The Master is looking for a tip.

Just sign here and enlightenment will imbue. Better yet, just leave your checkbook with me and don't worry yourself about the particulars; men of your stature have more important matters to occupy their time."

 

Ok, fine... (hey, the only reason Cruisin keeps me around is my "creative" posts.)

Quote

The guy ... has recommended the nitron NTR-2 for the shock and the ohlin's cartridge kit for the front.    and nitron doesn't make a cartridge kit for my bike yet with no ETA in site (they're "working on it"). 

 

So, of the rear shocks available the NTR2 (or 3) is definitely king and bonus, they have a remote-preload adjuster (+$250) or failing that, the manual method is second to none and matched only by Penske. K-Tech supposedly has a RPA in the works but time frame is anyone's guess.

 

First rule of commercial cartridges is that they all are varying degrees of way too stiff for road use. So all of the items below get modified one way or the other.

 

I personally like the Matris F15K the best of the lot. Of the 2-valve solutions the Andreani by virtue of the price, K-Tech IDS and then a gap down to Ohlin NIX-22. There are also entries like the Bitubo JBH (will be installing one this weekend), and my in-house special which is recycled from GSXR cartridges. 

 

As to Nitron's "TVT" cartridge kit for the FZ07 you are correct they really are working on it but my 30 minute talk with the USA importer yesterday didn't produce a delivery date.

 

Commercial frontends run 600-800'ish

Shocks are tad under 500 all the way to 1100.

[Dharma]

Blackout--very helfpul, thank you.  I felt, too, that the 3 was probably overboard, if not the 2!  The height adjustment sounds like something I want. 

 

Pattonme--good to hear the NTR 2 has your blessing.  Thank for you the scoop.  I don't think I'm goin to wait on the TVT.  So why the Matris F15K?  My other concern in all of these was ease of servicing and availability of parts.  Penske and Ohlins are by far the easiest in this regard, nitron is not bad.  Some of these others might be a pain for me locally.  Also, you mention the issue with all the performance forks being too stiff and needing modification--what modification? 

[Dharma]

Norcal616--thanks for the book recommendation.  Ordered it from Amazon. This one looks promising as well: 

 

https://www.amazon.com/Sportbike-Suspension-Tuning-Andrew-Trevitt/dp/1893618455/ref=pd_sbs_14_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=1893618455&pd_rd_r=TXS4GZFCT9V9839FR5TS&pd_rd_w=aGBoK&pd_rd_wg=yFNK1&psc=1&refRID=TXS4GZFCT9V9839FR5TS

[Dharma]

pattonme--why gap down to the ohlins?

[gregjet]

One place where I don't agree with pattonme ( not many others beside the 07 short trail question) is the Nitron I find a little too harsh compression damping on the road. I think it would be a brilliant track shock. I tend to love Ohlins shocks ( base model) for the street, IF you have a good supplier that have the experience to l fit the correct spring and tuned the damping before they send it to you. I would prefer an Ohlins that I have had on other bikes to the Nitron BUT I do live in a place where ther are some nasty square bumps in the roads ( cane train tracks).

[Dharma]

6 minutes ago, gregjet said:

One place where I don't agree with pattonme ( not many others beside the 07 short trail question) is the Nitron I find a little too harsh compression damping on the road. I think it would be a brilliant track shock. I tend to love Ohlins shocks ( base model) for the street, IF you have a good supplier that have the experience to l fit the correct spring and tuned the damping before they send it to you. I would prefer an Ohlins that I have had on other bikes to the Nitron BUT I do live in a place where ther are some nasty square bumps in the roads ( cane train tracks).

I hear you on the nitron compression.  That said, at least it's adjustable on the nitron where as the ohlins there is no compression adjustment.  I appreciate your input because the roads here are horrifying here as well (pot holes, ruts, lots of construction attempting to fix the shet that should have been taken care of 10 years ago, etc).  The ohlins you have in the past, did they have adjustable height and compression?  That's the thing that keeps me from pulling the trigger on it for this bike.  

 

Every time I think I start feeling good about a particular suspension set up, I learn something new or hear a few more experiences and I'm back to feeling overwhelmed and indecisive.  Damn. 

 

I foresee the forthcoming comment:  "just buy some shet and ride more."  

[pattonme]

3 hours ago, Dharma said:

pattonme--why gap down to the ohlins?

it's the most expensive 2-piston solution by a decent margin. Doesn't mean it's bad or anything but since it uses a "non-standard" piston of 22mm replacements are not handy. 

 

The compression circuit on the fork kits is way too tight and so needs to be reworked (different piston and valving) or a super--super- thin oil used. Do a Google search on harshness from Andreani for example. Most race tracks (except Nelson Ledges) are a walk in the park for suspension. It's the street (or @gregjet's outback) that is the demanding mistress.

[pattonme]

2 hours ago, gregjet said:

 is the Nitron I find a little too harsh compression damping on the road. I think it would be a brilliant track shock. I tend to love Ohlins shocks ( base model) for the street

The Ohlins compression damping is softer than the Nitron, that is true. At least the FZ09 shocks are that way. I dont' think I've dyno'd a FZ07 Ohlins vs Nitron. All of these are fully customizable and you're correct, an Ohlins or Penske shop can be found anywhere, while Nitron is rather more rare. There will be an announcement soon about Nitron USA's increased service footprint but it's still a "regional" presence rather than one in every top 200 metro area.

 

The NTR2+ or Razor-R and Penske 8983 and Bitubo XXF31 (a whale of a deal IMO) at least let you tweak the high-speed comp circuit. Whether it has enough range to cover your use case and preferences is to be determined. If you have the money and the inclination it's not a big ask to take it back in to get reworked 

[stickshift]

2 hours ago, Dharma said:

The ohlins you have in the past, did they have adjustable height and compression?  That's the thing that keeps me from pulling the trigger on it for this bike. 

Although the height is not adjustable the basic ohlins shock is slightly longer than the standard shock. It's a good compromise between road, track and cost. I adjust the rebound setting for the track and the preload setting when riding with pillion, simple. I chose the ohlins shock because of convenience of servicing, it's even better than I had hoped (and looks great).

 

My forks are currently modified with cogent valves (great bang for buck), but eventually I'll be going with ohlins cartridges.

[gregjet]

" The ohlins you have in the past, did they have adjustable height and compression?  That's the thing that keeps me from pulling the trigger on it for this bike.  " All were simple rebound and height adjustable ( as well as preload of course.)

 

pattonme: " it's the most expensive 2-piston solution by a decent margin. Doesn't mean it's bad or anything but since it uses a "non-standard" piston of 22mm replacements are not handy. " Pretty much of a muchness in Aus price wise. Penske unavailable as far as I know. As you know, freight from US to Aus is horrifying. Got my Nitrons from UK at the time from where freight was less scarey. Would have gone Ohlins if they had been made for mine then. Aussie service and help on Ohlins is exemplarary.

BTW I am very much on the coast not the outback ( not a great place to grow cane out there).

[norcal616]

Depends on where you live you may be able to check out other FZ-07s with upgraded suspension... I did my suspension upgrades way back when the FZ-07 came out and the offerings where slim and unknown/untested... nowadays you got more choices than you can find...  I have spent over a year debating my suspension upgrades for my FJ-09 since the OEM suspension is okay compared to the wet noodles on the FZ-07... 

 

[Dharma]

Alright, after irritating myself with near constant circular indecisive internal monologue all day, I "think" I'm going with the nitron NTR2 in black with the hydraulic preload adjuster and the Ohlin Nix 22 for the fork. 

 

Applaud or throw tomatoes. 

 

 

[gregjet]

Definitely a either/or senario. Applauding and throwing tomatoes at the same time is very difficult. I will applaude. Not because I totally agree with the choice but because making a final decision about this is a genuine effort.

[pattonme]

19 hours ago, Dharma said:

Applaud or throw tomatoes. 

plastic bags of old Kimchi are my missile of choice.

[gregjet]

" plastic bags of old Kimchi are my missile of choice." I thought that was for Hyosungs only...