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botticelli

FZ07R is the R6 Front End swap worth it?

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botticelli

For those of you that have built up an 07R, I want your input. Or those of you who track you FZ as it is.

 

(Yes, I'm going to convert my 07 to an 07R)

 

I am currently buying some parts, and when I get another bike for the street, I will pull the trigger on the body work and some other AP goodies! YAY!

 

My intended use is just track days, no racing, so not subjected to any rules of that sort. (willow, chuckwalla, thunderhill, and laguna are all likely)

 

My question simply is which front end?

 

Option 1 - The FZ07 front end

Upgrade the  fork internals

Maybe change the MC, but the stock brakes really do feel good enough ( I run ebc pads)

 

Option 2

The R6 swap

Upgrade fork internals(more options than the 07)

Big time braking upgrade, is it really needed?

 

 

Honestly, I am leaning towards keeping the stock front end, but DO want input here, I really only want to do this once. I would strongly like to avoid investing in the stock frontend to then yank it all off for the r6 one.

 

Thanks in advance,

~Pete

 


'16 FZ07

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djfz07

I struggled with this dilemma when I upgraded my forks.  I ended up with the Ohlins NIX-22 cartridges in the stock forks.  I plan on doing track days this year but my bike is more of a street oriented bike.  I like the idea of the R6 swap with USD forks and better brakes and all of the aftermarket that comes with them.  But in the end I decided the stock brakes feel pretty good already, I'm not going crazy at track days, and the cartridge upgrade gave me all the adjustments I need to tune for the track or street.

 

I guess it's really up to you and how hardcore you want to go on the track.  Some of the suspension and brake upgrades available for the R6 can cost as much as a complete used R6 lol.  I feel as though my bike is plenty capable of a modest track day at my riding level.

 

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cornerslider

I think what you got is fine for trackdays & street riding. I do about 80/20 track/street I did the race tech springs, and emulators in my OEM forks. I couldn't be happier!!! If I was "chasing championships" it my be different? I do trackdays for fun. My two cents- spend your money on trackdays, and good coaching. It will probably take you several years before you "out-grow" your current Ohlins set up. Just my personal opinion 😬- 

 

Edit: I just realized djfz07 didn't START this thread- I was replying to his post.... (my bad)

Edited by cornerslider
opps!
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""W.O.T. until you see god, then brake"

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cornerslider
2 hours ago, botticelli said:

For those of you that have built up an 07R, I want your input. Or those of you who track you FZ as it is.

 

(Yes, I'm going to convert my 07 to an 07R)

 

I am currently buying some parts, and when I get another bike for the street, I will pull the trigger on the body work and some other AP goodies! YAY!

 

My intended use is just track days, no racing, so not subjected to any rules of that sort. (willow, chuckwalla, thunderhill, and laguna are all likely)

 

My question simply is which front end?

 

Option 1 - The FZ07 front end

Upgrade the  fork internals

Maybe change the MC, but the stock brakes really do feel good enough ( I run ebc pads)

 

Option 2

The R6 swap

Upgrade fork internals(more options than the 07)

Big time braking upgrade, is it really needed?

 

 

Honestly, I am leaning towards keeping the stock front end, but DO want input here, I really only want to do this once. I would strongly like to avoid investing in the stock frontend to then yank it all off for the r6 one.

 

Thanks in advance,

~Pete

 

Now, to reply to your post..... I'm very happy with my Racetech springs (for my weight), and emulators. I run a "barebones" Ohlins rear. I followed the sag & setting that Ohlins recommended. I'm very impressed with what I got for just under $800 (front & rear) 😎. I recently upgraded to steel braided brake lines (front and rear). The "feel" is greatly improved. I'll probably upgrade the pads when the OEM's wear out. I view trackdays as "fun-time"... We drive around in circles, light fuel on fire, and destroy tires. I just depends on how serious you want to get with it 👍

Edited by cornerslider
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""W.O.T. until you see god, then brake"

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foss

My thoughts....from a race only perspective. I have one with stock forks and ktech cartridges and R6 forks with stock cartridges on the other. I don't recommend going R6 if you plan to keep internals stock. With more tuning I think I can get the stock R6 to perform as good as FZ with the ktech, but I don't think it will ever exceed it. My suspension guy agrees. More of the reason for going R6 is better brakes (completely unnecessary if you ask me) and having access to more parts like used wheels and rotors if you need replacements. With FZ parts becoming more readily available all the time, I don't see a lot of benefit. 

 

Hit me up if in the end you decide you want to go R6. I might be interested in getting rid of mine with aftermarket rim and rotors.

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twf

Our race bike (won race yesterday at b-willow) is on stock forks with cartridges and stock brakes (calipers, master and pads). Brake lines are ss. 

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botticelli

Brakes

I do have SS lines and honestly prefer the OEM pads to the EBC ones I am using now, but after 3 sets of OEM pads, I wanted to try some aftermarkets on the front. The rears I have never varied from the Yamaha pads. 

 

The stock brakes have more then enough oomph for my liking, glad to know it does not become a weak point on track.

 

Forks

Glad to hear this feedback, I was leaning towards the stock forks with a cartridge upgrade, clad to know its not an expensive compromise.

 

 

I agree the ready supply of R6 wheels, brakes, pads, and parts is much easier but the more people racing on 07's the more the 07 parts will become cheap and easy to find.

I already have 2 sets of wheels for the 07 too, so It looks like the verdict is in.

 

Time to go blow some coin at revzilla

Thanks all and will likely have more q's as I build this bad boy up.

 

~Pete

 


'16 FZ07

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foss
3 hours ago, botticelli said:

 

 

Time to go blow some coin at revzilla

Thanks all and will likely have more q's as I build this bad boy up.

 

~Pete

 

Find a local suspension guy and go through them. The cartridges aren't a straight bolt in and there's some work required from my understanding. Plus he will help get you dialed in. Settings done on the bench for my weight/use/etc were good. One tweak trackside after a few laps and it's been money ever since!

 

The few bucks you can save using revzilla just isn't worth it in my opinion. 

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foss

Also how many miles/trackdays are you getting to a set of pads???? I would guess I have equivalent to 3 race weekends on my factory set, and they have plenty of life left. I'm only replacing them to start the season fresh again.

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botticelli
1 hour ago, foss said:

Find a local suspension guy and go through them. The cartridges aren't a straight bolt in and there's some work required from my understanding. Plus he will help get you dialed in. Settings done on the bench for my weight/use/etc were good. One tweak trackside after a few laps and it's been money ever since!

 

The few bucks you can save using revzilla just isn't worth it in my opinion. 

My local guy wants me to buy the ohlins kit. I don't have a track-side guy but do have a local shop near me that I use for all my and my wife's bikes. I also plan to grab some case covers, clipons, parts for the build, etc.

 

1 hour ago, foss said:

Also how many miles/trackdays are you getting to a set of pads???? I would guess I have equivalent to 3 race weekends on my factory set, and they have plenty of life left. I'm only replacing them to start the season fresh again.

I have not yet had the 07 on track, but have changed my pads after getting about 12k. I ride the canyons 2-3x a week, and have a large120 mile daily commute. The first set "lasted" to about 15. I change em every 12, the could last some more, but at 12 they are ready. My wife shot through one set in 9k but shes demonic(brakes crazy late)on the brakes, a byproduct of being very used to the brakes of her Tuono.

 

I bet this bike, with the lost fat from the 07R conversion, could easily do a whole season on a set of pads. 2 or more for the rear depending on your breaking style. I only changed my rears after 40k and really they had ~30% left. Felt no change on the rear.

 

 


'16 FZ07

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scratchpad

Like Zoran said our bike performs well on OEM forks with cartridges. Stock MC works well and never fades in a race, i do have crg adjustable levers and galfer lines. I did put some fancy fluid (castrol srf) in there after the first 2 years of racing it. Far more important than what you put in/on there is who does it and what advice your given. 

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fzar
On 4/16/2018 at 6:45 PM, cornerslider said:

I'm very happy with my Racetech springs (for my weight), and emulators. I run a "barebones" Ohlins rear. I followed the sag & setting that Ohlins recommended. I'm very impressed with what I got for just under $800 (front & rear) 😎. I

You got any links for these? I mean $800 for front and rear, I could venture down that alley, also who set it up? You or somebody else?

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cornerslider

I bought everything from “Sport bike Track Gear” www.stg.com I did the installation myself. The Ohlins shock was really easy. The forks are more time consuming. The instructions are pretty easy to follow. I researched extensively at www.racetech.com- very good resource on setting up your forks. One important thing- the FZ-07 requires “adapters” to fit the emulators to the dampening rod (that cost me a week of riding). They are cheap, like $20? Take your time, and be patient. I followed  the racetech recommended settings, and that’s it- DONE!!! 

Edited by cornerslider
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""W.O.T. until you see god, then brake"

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gregjet

Pity I saw this too late. I would have recommended pattonme's modded showa internals for the stock forks for track. Probably overkill for the street but worth it fo the track. Plenty of adjustability.

Still properly sprung and adjusted GVE's are pretty good and I could have given you the dimensions for the adapters ( I made a set for the GVE's I had before pattonme's stuff).


Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

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no-lag

the benefits of the R6 Front end, my opinion......

 

Stiffer, Handles Better, More Tunable, Better Brakes!

 

if you do the conversion you will need to extend the steering stops!

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wmhjr

Late to the party but just my 2 cents....  Have a 2016 I picked up recently.  Had OEM forks with NIX22 cartridges.  Ohlins on the rear.   This is a track/race only bike.  It was "OK".  Feedback from the front when you started pushing in the corners was not confidence inspiring.  Bike wanted to push wide after apex and/or front end chatter.  Tested it at NJMP, Road Atlanta and PIRC.  Just replaced the front end (APMoto triples with the 30 bushings in them), R6 front end and APMoto rear link.  Bike is a completely different animal now.  Geometry much better and it's light, nimble and predictable no matter how much you push it in the corners.  The original forks with NIX22's I'm now selling.  They are awesome for the street and capable of track duty but the offset triples with the longer front end have made it a very different machine.  IMHO it all depends on what you want to do.  No "right" answer.  More of a pick the solution that best matches your goal and your budget.

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pattonme
2 hours ago, wmhjr said:

 Had OEM forks with NIX22 cartridges.  Ohlins on the rear.   This is a track/race only bike.  It was "OK".  Feedback from the front when you started pushing in the corners was not confidence inspiring.  Bike wanted to push wide after apex and/or front end chatter.

valving and oil changes would likely have helped... That AP rear link also changes the bike geometry a LOT.


bannerfans_1095431.jpg

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wmhjr
30 minutes ago, pattonme said:

valving and oil changes would likely have helped... That AP rear link also changes the bike geometry a LOT.

The NIX setup was prepped, however it's very possible that more changes to it could have made it better.  And to be clear, it was not bad.  If somebody is looking for a street/light track setup it's great.  However, the geometry change on the front end in particular I think made a world of difference.  I don't believe just valving and oil would have made a huge difference on the tendency to push from apex when hard on the throttle.  That's a geometry issue.  Not a preload/damping/rebound issue.  Changing the rake with the offset triples combined with the rear link was likely a far bigger factor in the improvement - and the difference is huge.  Frankly, I just decided I didn't want to reinvent the wheel, and with the FZ being a much less "experienced" platform than the SV, it made sense to go with what is working well in MA.  I'd also agree that if you're just talking about doing the R6 fork swap without the offset triples, then the difference isn't likely going to be the same as what I experienced.  Yeah, you get better brake calipers.  But I don't think the 50mm forks being more rigid would make that much of a difference unless you offset the rake.   JMHO.

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Adrianfz07

Im thinking the same 

what are the pros and cons of each  set up

stock forks with ohlins or ketch internals

or stock r6 front end 

and what kind or work will I need to get that job done?

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botticelli

The way I have taken it is there are a few options

 

1. Stock 07 front end

2. Stock 07 front end with new internals ohlins, ktech etc

3. Swap for R6 forks

    3A. fork internals( R6 stock vs upgraded)

    3B. triple(stock vs AP)

   


'16 FZ07

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Zupatun
On 4/19/2018 at 9:17 AM, scratchpad said:

Like Zoran said our bike performs well on OEM forks with cartridges. Stock MC works well and never fades in a race, i do have crg adjustable levers and galfer lines. I did put some fancy fluid (castrol srf) in there after the first 2 years of racing it. Far more important than what you put in/on there is who does it and what advice your given. 

I'm glad to hear that...my old SV650 MC wasn't nearly as nice as a Nissin racing MC...but I was just doing trackdays...and not limited by rules. Nice to hear that the Yamaha hardware isn't too shabby!

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cornerslider
On 4/17/2018 at 6:45 PM, foss said:

Find a local suspension guy and go through them. The cartridges aren't a straight bolt in and there's some work required from my understanding. Plus he will help get you dialed in. Settings done on the bench for my weight/use/etc were good. One tweak trackside after a few laps and it's been money ever since!

 

The few bucks you can save using revzilla just isn't worth it in my opinion. 

Based on your profile pic, we may have the same suspension guy- (Trackside Labs?)..... Brandon recently mentioned after his frame measuring seminar, that the R6 front end MAY be too stiff for the FZ-07 frame to handle? He mentioned it can bend the frame under HEAVY braking- enough to change the steering angle slightly. That being said, the OEM forks that "flex", are lookin' pretty good to me  😎


""W.O.T. until you see god, then brake"

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foss
On 1/11/2019 at 5:30 PM, cornerslider said:

Based on your profile pic, we may have the same suspension guy- (Trackside Labs?)..... Brandon recently mentioned after his frame measuring seminar, that the R6 front end MAY be too stiff for the FZ-07 frame to handle? He mentioned it can bend the frame under HEAVY braking- enough to change the steering angle slightly. That being said, the OEM forks that "flex", are lookin' pretty good to me  😎

I liked the feel from the stock forks my SS much better than the R6 setup I had on the SB. Maybe too many variables for a true comparison, but even after upgrading the R6 forks to aftermarket carts I was still smoother and had better feedback from the stockers with carts.

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foss
Just now, foss said:

I liked the feel from the stock forks my SS much better than the R6 setup I had on the SB. Maybe too many variables for a true comparison, but even after upgrading the R6 forks to aftermarket carts I was still smoother and had better feedback from the stockers with carts.

That being said, if anyone wants a cheap set of 08+ R6 forks to try it for themselves I have a set.

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fishtaco

I used a telefix fork brace on my 1985 rz350......I wonder if the fz07 can benefit from a fork brace on the stock forks?

 

(random pic for reference)

5af15d2d.jpg.49dc9924b1a0cee0d44f5de16591fe67.jpg

Edited by fishtaco

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