Gasoline (Euro vs North America)

[Guru]

There is a lot of confusing about the quality of fuel and Octane ratings
 
In Europe 98-octane gasoline is common and in Japan even 100-octane is readily available at the pumps, but this octane figure is misleading to North Americans as foreign octane ratings are derived entirely differently from our own.
 
Like every other measurement system everyone outside North America uses a different scale than we do. But in this case we use the same name.
And the name itself is confusing too. Fuel nowadays does not contain Octane because it is poisonous (same goes for lead btw) It is simply a scale we use to indicate the resistance to self combustion or ignition (without spark). Which is commonly referred to as engine knock.
The Octane rating doesn’t even say anything about the quality of the fuel. Premium or Super is not necessarily better as it does no contain more energy.
 
Japan and Europe use a system called RON (Research Octane Number) to determine the octane rating of their gasoline, while in NA we use a system called AKI (Anti-Knock Index) to determine gasoline's octane rating.
To further complicate things it would seem that the AKI system is actually derived from the average of the RON system and another more complicated system referred to as MON (Motor Octane Number).
 
A good rule of thumb is as follows: multiply the foreign RON Octane rating by 0.95 and you will have the US/Canadian AKI equivalent:
 
98 RON x 0.95 = 93.1 AKI
100 RON x 0.95 = 95 AKI
 
Or divide the AKI Octane by 0.95 to get RON Octane:
 
87 AKI / 0.95 = 91.6 RON
91AKI / 0.95 = 95.8 RON
93 AKI / 0.95 = 97.9 RON
 
A bigger problem is the actual quality of the fuel and the amount of added ethanol (comparable to alcohol), especially when used with older engines. With a FZ-07 it shouldn't be an issue unless you store the bike for longer periods.
Ethanol not only has less energy, dissolves rubber gaskets and seals but attracts water. Gasoline starts to smell bad and actually turns green and gums up the fuel system. I would recommend a fuel stabilizer if you store the bike for the winter.
In Canada we even have winter blend gasoline, which contains more ethanol. You can actually see a significant decrease in fuel mileage.
 
 

[mjh937]

Interesting info, Guru. Who would have thought that we would do something different in the US .
 
I am going to pay the extra and just use non-ethanol fuel. There is one station in town that has it. It is over $1 per gallon more, but as I will only be buying three gallons at a time I think I can afford it.

[Cruizin]

Great post Guru, thanks!

[manuel]

Excellent post, Guru. During my research for the best oil for my car I discovered other nuances as well - if I may:
1. European gasoline is lower on sulphur compared to the North American. That is why car manufacturers have different engine oil standards between Europe vs. North America. It may be applicable to bikes, I am not sure. For example, the oil standard for my car is LL-01 in North America and LL-04 in Europe.
2. I try to stay away from ethanol as much as I can - even though the impact is not that great during the riding season when the gasoline doesn't really sit in the tank (and fuel system) for too long, I try to avoid it. I know that in Canada, the Shell AKI 91 (their V-Power brand ) gas is ethanol free, so that is what I am using in both my car and now my bike. In US, there is better selection and I think the vendors need to specify the ethanol content (up to 10%, there was an initiative to raise that to 15%, but it got dropped because of the damaging concerns). They say that newer engines should not be affected by ethanol, but since there is a concern I am trying to play it safe and stay away from it, for as long as I can. 

[mjh937]

In the US (at least in Washington state) the pumps all have a decal that says "may contain up to 10% ethanol". It is not very helpful, but I suspect they are all mostly at 10%. I know in my car I get 5 mpg better milage with ethanol free fuel, so that leads me to believe they are at the maximum they can.

[Guru]

Great addition manuel. The problem with ethanol free gasoline is availability. In my area it is quite difficult to find. My friend owns a marina and offers it at a premium. You can imagine he has lots of problems with ethanol/water.
Shell V-Power is the best fuel I found so far and I use it if I can find it. The better mileage compensates for the extra you pay at the pump.

[Guest MXRider]

Just to touch a bit more on what @guru said, the pump octane number or PON (87, 89, 91, 93, etc.) we use here in the states is (RON + MON) / 2. The average of research and motor octane.
 
And because our pump gas is so crappy here I run VP race fuel in my YZ. The bike detonates bad on 93 octane pump gas.

[manuel]

There is a website that has a good size list of ethanol free gas stations in US and Canada...nothing commercial, could I post it?
 

[Guest MXRider]

I've seen it before. Pure gas or something like that. Feel free to post it.

[manuel]

That's correct:
 
http://pure-gas.org/
 

[qjohnson]

Well looks like no ethanol free gas for me hahaha.

[mjh937]

I just bought a tank of it .

[hobbs]

There's a place up the road from where my old house is that sells ethanol free fuel. Costs the same as premium. I'm actually moving back to that area, so I suppose I might regularly fill the FZ with it, and of course my classic C3.

[Guest montana07]

Good post guru. Was confused by the US vs other octane ratings.
 
I'm strictly non-ethanol for both my bike and truck. Thankfully there are a handful of gas stations around here where it's available and no more expensive.
 
As for octane level, ive done US 87 and 89 and no problem with Either.

[pgeldz]

So what gas are you guys actually using? 87, 89, 91, 93?
 
For the first 600 miles, I used mid grade, 89. Bike ran great. I live in the desert, where the temp is normally hovering about 100 degrees, so I figured I'd start using 91 for better knock resistance. Filled up the tank tonight with 91 and did over 100 miles, and bike ran...pretty much exactly the same. Not sure if it was my mind playing tricks on me, but may have had a tad better throttle response after using 91, hard to tell though. I'm gonna stick with 91 from now on because I've talked to some tuners who develop fuel solutions for motorcycles, and they all use 91 octane to test and tune with. Figured if I were to get a tunable solution in the future to go with a pipe/air filter combo, I should prob use what maps were designed for...
 

 
- Paulie

[mjh937]

I am using 90 octane non-ethanol. It is $4.57 a gallon, but when I am buying less than three gallons at a time it is not too bad.

[MeanMug]

Thanks Guru for the post,
The USA EPA is trying to push 15% ethanol. Thankfully the AMA and moto makers Are fighting it. Anything with a carb is dead on 15% ethanol.
 
 
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[nmucat]

There is an app for iPhones and im sure android that helps you locate ethanol free stations but I deleted bc there were none even close

[hippiebikerchick]

Absolutely fascinating topic! I had no idea about any of this and am learning a lot from you guys! My only experience with this is decades ago gasohol was available at select stations and I used to put it in my car a lot. (Thought I was helping the environment, ha) This is in California. Then when it came time for the smog test the car failed because too much oxygen was in the exhaust. I found out the gasohol had completely rusted out my tailpipe! I never used it again. Now you seem to be saying that it's in most if not all the gas we buy?

[MeanMug]

Absolutely fascinating topic! I had no idea about any of this and am learning a lot from you guys! My only experience with this is decades ago gasohol was available at select stations and I used to put it in my car a lot. (Thought I was helping the environment, ha) This is in California. Then when it came time for the smog test the car failed because too much oxygen was in the exhaust. I found out the gasohol had completely rusted out my tailpipe! I never used it again. Now you seem to be saying that it's in most if not all the gas we buy?

ayuh 
its terrible fuel , my generator's fuel tank is a rusty mess. Storing 10% ethanol fuel for any longer than a month requires a stabilizer. 

[Dirk]

Great post, thanks!
 
Bring some light on the differences between you guys and me in France... And quite a good news: we may pay way more for gas but at least we have ethanol free at every gas station!!!

[jerryv]

Remind me again, why do we have alcohol in our fuel? Is it GMO corn based ethanol that the govt subsidized farmers to grow?

[cassecou]

Remind me again, why do we have alcohol in our fuel? Is it GMO corn based ethanol that the govt subsidized farmers to grow?

That's almost it. Farmers get subsidies from our government to grow corn, the price of corn is guarantied (fixed).
If there is a good corn season, the harvest price is guaranty (which in general brings the price down for any other product but not for corn) but through subsidies, the farmer gets a better (set) price.
Corn is also insured, so if no corn is harvested, the farmer still gets paid. Its sometime better for the farmer to have a bad harvest.
All this helps our farmers, but the real hidden help goes to cow ranchers and corn syrup manufacturers.
- Through the subsidies program, ranchers are guarantied a set corn price that can be cheaply fed to their cows. Even so cows are not meant to eat corn, but grass, by doing so it damages the cows intestine, that's why cows are fed tones of antibiotics to help them eat more cheap corn (antibiotics we are then absorbing when eating beef). I still eat my steak though
- Through the same subsidies, Corn syrup manufacturers also get a set and cheap corn price, being more competitive than importing real sugar (sugar cane which is much better for us to consume), and so can produce cheap sugar for our process food.
- And then, there is ethanol, which has 3 purposes. The first is to decrease our dependence on foreign oil, the second is to reduce carbon emission and the third is to help corn farmers.
  But it takes more than a gallon of gasoline to make a gallon of ethanol. So the system goes back to helping our farmers, which mainly help big companies like ConAgra, Cargill, Coke, Pepsi and many more.
 
Hope this help
 
 
 
 

[sansnombre]

That's pretty close, but it's a bit more complex then that, esp when you factor in the history of why the subsidy was initiated and why it's a load of sh!t now. The majority of small farms and family farms is at a very low level - most have been bought out or forced out by big Agro. So those subsidies are being given to very, very large companies that have no need of those tax dollars, but their voice on Capital Hill is too loud and it stays, and stays, and stays.
 
Cattle are "finished" in lots, where they are fatted up on corn and kept in pens so they gain tremendous amount of weight prior to being slaughtered. Much of the time, they stand in their own feces, and their hides are smeared with it as well. So the antibiotics are primarily to keep them from getting sick because of the unsterile conditions during finishing. Yes, the corn is harmful to their digestive track, but the antibiotics are largely prophylactic and are there so they don't get sick from the fecal matter exposure or digestive-related issues.
 
GMO has it's place, and it's done some incredible things. Don't want to consume it? Neither do I, but there has been no scientific evidence that it is harmful. Still don't want to consume it? Me neither. But it has increased the yield of corn and other commodities to a phenomenal degree. So much so that corn is now being used in a crazy amount of products that are not edible. Awesome, but there are unknowns and risks associated with it's use, esp when we get a single genome that is used almost exclusively. If we get a bacteria or pest that aggressively targets that genome and it goes down, the US supply of corn plummets for a season . . . at least. And all Hell breaks loose. So there are some risks beyond potential allergies or long-term exposure to a GMO.
 
Again, this is a very complex subject with pros and cons. If you're interested in more, watch the doc "King Corn", "Food, Inc" or read some of the books by Michael Pollan. Very straight forward and fair-minded discussions on these topics. They'll blow your mind. Guaranteed.
 
Corn syrup or sugar-cane-based sweeteners are very, very similar metabolically. The problem is not that something is sweetened with corn syrup, it's just that nearly everything is sweetened with corn syrup (or something else). It's ubiquitous in our food supply, and that's the problem. We are eating way too much sweetener - see diabetes epidemic and weight problems. People like to demonize corn syrup, but that's not really the problem. The fact that the producers of food sweeten nearly everything with corn syrup is why it's being vilified.
 
Re corn-based ethanol and it being in our gas - all political. It doesn't make sense. There are several other items that are better - much better - than corn for ethanol production. Sugar and hemp being two. But the corn lobby (see the names in the prior post) pushed to have corn be the base of our ethanol supply, and it's scientifically unsound. It takes nearly the same amount of energy to create ethanol from corn to that which is drawn from the ethanol - it's nearly a wash. Where's the gain? This one is relatively complex as well, but it comes down to politics. Period.
 
<off the soapbox>

[jerryv]

It always comes down to the almighty dollar.  Makes it too tempting and profitable to not do the right thing.  Tobacco is another good example. 
Pesticides are another sticky wicket .. the poisoning of America and the world for that matter.  We shoot off in a lot of directions on these topics.
 
I couldn't agree more about sugar.  Why does it have to be in everything and why so much.  Why is it in white bread, which is crap anyway?  
 
Certainly sad and thought provoking matters!
 

That's pretty close, but it's a bit more complex then that,