Stalling Issues?

[fooschnickens]

That seems to be the missing link, here. Though I wonder, could it be the angle sensor tripping accidentally? Most accounts I've read about this happening has been while the bike is mid turn...
 

[rick]

Mine's never stalled while even moving, much less leaned over. I'd blame a sidetsand switch sooner than a tip-over switch.

[aeisan]

I discovered my clutch sensor was disconnected (it either came that way or worked its way loose) when I stalled once and could not restart in gear. I plugged it back in and no issue since. I agree this seems to be a factory QC/QA issue since so many others report the same thing. Also, I understand that the "stalling issue" is two fold...  
One part is the super lean factory ECU programming, most notably the "fuel cut off" loop. I don't doubt this plays a role in why so many folks stall, but Yamaha will say this is working as intended.
 
The other part is the operator. A good operator will take this info about the cut-off into account and operate the bike accordingly. Figuring out the intricacies of the throttle and clutch are just part of riding a bike.
 
I'm not trying to defend Yamaha (this is clearly a fail on their part) nor am I saying you suck if you stall your bike; I think we can agree the ECU is playing a large role in the amount of stalls but I also think the affect can be mitigated by throttle control. Once I figured out what not to do, I stopped doing it and the bike hasn't stalled since.

So, 
What is the magic trick technique wise that prevents the bike from stalling while in gear and while moving?

Man, if I could tell you, I would.  I just do it... I.e. I just have a feel for things I guess.  All I can think of is that I usually "prime" the throttle before any take off by upping the revs.  Depending on feel, this "priming" is either a slow roll on or a quick blip or two.  My guess is that wakes the ECU up a bit and keeps it out of that cut off state?  I dunno... but it works.  I can hear and feel when I do this that sometimes it chokes a little; almost like it would die if I tried to engage the clutch.   
Since getting my EJK, I've noticed this is even easier to prevent.  I've been playing around with the green/blue setting, lowering it to see if that helps any.  I think it has.  For those unfamiliar with the EJK, the green/blue setting controls when the imaginary accelerator pump kicks on.  The EJK does nothing below 1100 RPM or at idle, but I have a hunch adding a little extra fuel with the "accel pump" sooner helps. I've not really put too much thought into it though; I've mostly been tuning for actual riding conditions and not take off.  

[aeisan]

I will add this thought... I had the EJK all dialed in for cooler temps and lower humidity we had for a few weeks; ~60-75 degF and maybe 20% humidity. When we jumped up to 85+ degF and 60-80% humidity, she definitely felt more sluggish both on take offs and at low end, slow acceleration. I need to adjust the fueling for sure.
 
I wonder if the ECU was designed by Al Gore? The bike is certainly very sensitive to climate change.

[norcal616]

Has anybody just unplugged the o2 sniffer and see if that help negate the stall?? I know it's random but sometimes random things work better than logic...

[montyst]

I will add this thought... I had the EJK all dialed in for cooler temps and lower humidity we had for a few weeks; ~60-75 degF and maybe 20% humidity. When we jumped up to 85+ degF and 60-80% humidity, she definitely felt more sluggish both on take offs and at low end, slow acceleration. I need to adjust the fueling for sure.  
I wonder if the ECU was designed by Al Gore? The bike is certainly very sensitive to climate change.

So with the EJK, you have to muck about with settings every time the weather changes?? That's crazy!
Yet from the factory, you can ride it rain or shine ???
 
 

[pantheraleo]

I will add this thought... I had the EJK all dialed in for cooler temps and lower humidity we had for a few weeks; ~60-75 degF and maybe 20% humidity. When we jumped up to 85+ degF and 60-80% humidity, she definitely felt more sluggish both on take offs and at low end, slow acceleration. I need to adjust the fueling for sure.  
I wonder if the ECU was designed by Al Gore? The bike is certainly very sensitive to climate change.

I've noticed the same. I got my EJK during early spring, and it really jumped. Now, in the mid/upper 80's....less so. So, what do you think? It seems to me WOT and cruise are still fine, but yellow-blue is too high at 5, which is the default setting for Yoshi with no snorkel.

[pantheraleo]

I will add this thought... I had the EJK all dialed in for cooler temps and lower humidity we had for a few weeks; ~60-75 degF and maybe 20% humidity. When we jumped up to 85+ degF and 60-80% humidity, she definitely felt more sluggish both on take offs and at low end, slow acceleration. I need to adjust the fueling for sure.  
I wonder if the ECU was designed by Al Gore? The bike is certainly very sensitive to climate change.

So with the EJK, you have to muck about with settings every time the weather changes?? That's crazy!
Yet from the factory, you can ride it rain or shine ???
 

Not sure about that....its more a function of humidity than temperature, I expect.
 
Maybe I was just close with my settings in spring, maybe the cooler dry air masked the settings that were off...
 
In any case, it takes about 5 minutes to adjust. So I'll take notes, tune, and note ambient conditions. It may be I will have settings for cool weather and hot. Once I get it straight, it will be simple to change settings. Figuring out the settings is the 'work,' and I like doing it.
 
Stock settings only work with the stock pipe, in my experience.

[rick]

Humidity? There may be an atmospheric pressure sensor associated with the ecu to adjust for altitude changes (as in big changes). But there's no way for the ecu to see relative humidity.
 
Way back in carb days, some bikes ran better with loads of moisture in the air. But that was likely an octane issue back when motors were designed to run on leaded premium and someone said it was ok to run them on the unleaded replacement.
 
I've now owned FI bikes since 1997 and not one noticed much about atmospheric changes. They've all lost a bit of fuel economy when it was cold out. But that was as much as me taking shorter rides when it's cold.
 
Just imagine having to adjust a car's fueling every time the weather changed. Most people can't even be bothered to check tire pressures from season to season.

[pantheraleo]

Humidity? There may be an atmospheric pressure sensor associated with the ecu to adjust for altitude changes (as in big changes). But there's no way for the ecu to see relative humidity.  
Way back in carb days, some bikes ran better with loads of moisture in the air. But that was likely an octane issue back when motors were designed to run on leaded premium and someone said it was ok to run them on the unleaded replacement.
 
I've now owned FI bikes since 1997 and not one noticed much about atmospheric changes. They've all lost a bit of fuel economy when it was cold out. But that was as much as me taking shorter rides when it's cold.
 
Just imagine having to adjust a car's fueling every time the weather changed. Most people can't even be bothered to check tire pressures from season to season.

Points noted.
 
The moisture content could affect the bike's combustion whether or not the humidity is seen by the fuel controller....or, what aesian and I are seeing in our bikes may be related to another factor or factors. I'm not sure...which is why I asked him. I have noticed the response from low throttle to acceleration is not what it initially was when I installed the EJK.
 
I suppose at this point we are derailing this thread with a side issue, so maybe I should start my own, and ask Dobeck if anyone else has seen this issue.

[rick]

If that device is advancing the ignition timing to the point that regular octane fuel is burning too quick, well, then maybe what you are feeling is for real. The thing already likely runs a bit lean in stock trim.
 
Maybe try using a higher octane fuel and see if that makes it go away.
 
To be a truly blind experiment, someone else should do the fill for you and not tell you when yer running 89 or even 91tane.
 
 

[aeisan]

I will add this thought... I had the EJK all dialed in for cooler temps and lower humidity we had for a few weeks; ~60-75 degF and maybe 20% humidity. When we jumped up to 85+ degF and 60-80% humidity, she definitely felt more sluggish both on take offs and at low end, slow acceleration. I need to adjust the fueling for sure.  
I wonder if the ECU was designed by Al Gore? The bike is certainly very sensitive to climate change.

So with the EJK, you have to muck about with settings every time the weather changes?? That's crazy!
Yet from the factory, you can ride it rain or shine ???
 

No, I don't need to.  The EJK is just a piggy-back on top of the stock ECU.  All the EJK does is take the base ECU signal and add or remove fuel from it.  So, the bike is still adjusting to the climatic changes.   
However, even with the stock ECU's ability to adjust for climatic changes, it's still not perfect.  I'd bet having my O2 sensor disconnected doesn't help the ECU with these changes.  When there is a huge swing in pressure, humidity, and/or temps yes I can tweak the EJK to eek a little something extra out of it vs leaving it alone.  
 
Maybe I'm just extra sensitive to throttle response, but I can definitely tell when the bike gets a little rich and is a little sluggish.  
 
 

[aeisan]

I will add this thought... I had the EJK all dialed in for cooler temps and lower humidity we had for a few weeks; ~60-75 degF and maybe 20% humidity. When we jumped up to 85+ degF and 60-80% humidity, she definitely felt more sluggish both on take offs and at low end, slow acceleration. I need to adjust the fueling for sure.  
I wonder if the ECU was designed by Al Gore? The bike is certainly very sensitive to climate change.

I've noticed the same. I got my EJK during early spring, and it really jumped. Now, in the mid/upper 80's....less so. So, what do you think? It seems to me WOT and cruise are still fine, but yellow-blue is too high at 5, which is the default setting for Yoshi with no snorkel.

I haven't messed with WOT (red nor red/blue) much, but I've been playing with G/B, G and Y some.  I've also not tweaked Y/B beyond the M4 suggested settings.  I found richening up the green a touch and lowering the G/B down some helped a ton with take offs and cruise roll-ons; green might have been a tad too lean still.  I also leaned Y out a half step and that seemed to help strong acceleration; base was a tad too rich for the higher humidity but was good when you get some good oxygen-rich air.  .  

[norcal616]

I stalled a few times around the 1k-1200 mile mark due to the fact I never adjusted the clutch pull after breaking the bike in... since then no stalls even at almost 3k miles...

[aeisan]

So with the EJK, you have to muck about with settings every time the weather changes?? That's crazy!
Yet from the factory, you can ride it rain or shine ???
 

Not sure about that....its more a function of humidity than temperature, I expect. 
Maybe I was just close with my settings in spring, maybe the cooler dry air masked the settings that were off...
 
In any case, it takes about 5 minutes to adjust. So I'll take notes, tune, and note ambient conditions. It may be I will have settings for cool weather and hot. Once I get it straight, it will be simple to change settings. Figuring out the settings is the 'work,' and I like doing it.
 
Stock settings only work with the stock pipe, in my experience.

Correct.  It's all about how much O2 is in the air.   
Agreed on the settings... That's one reason I like the EJK over a PCV.  I keep a log of all my settings and will eventually just know what to tweak and when.  It will not be complicated at all.  

[rick]

Sorry, but the %O2 in our air never changes. The partial pressure will change with altitude making the O2 less available, but we'll never see altitude high enough for that absolute % of ~20.5 to drop.
 
All the drag racing stuff that converts results to sea level is due to that partial pressure. They'll talk about air density, but it's really about the partial pressure of O2 in the air.
 
And neither increasing/decreasing the moisture content or changing the temp in the air 20F will change the O2% either.
 
If humidity is making your bikes run better with this thing hooked up, I'm gonna suggest that when it's not humid, you have knocking/pinging that your pipes won't allow you to hear. The moisture content in the air will slow combustion the same way increasing fuel octane will.
 
 

[aeisan]

Sorry, by "air" I meant "atmosphere" not how much O2 is in an air molecule. My bad for being a little sloppy with terminology. I was writing that as I was trying to rush out of the office.
 
Humidity does not change the amount of O2 in the "air" molecules, no, but it certainly does change the density of those air molecules in the atmosphere. The more humid it is, the less "air" the engine can take in (because it's taking in more water vapor). More humidity means more water vapor in the air, displacing any of the other gases (O2 and N) and thereby making the "air" less dense. It's the exact same reason when you run it's harder to breath in more humid and higher elevation environments. Humidity, temperature and pressure all effect the density of any gas in the atmosphere.
 
To explain this in partial pressure terms, for any given atmospheric pressure and temperature, if the volume of water vapor goes up, the volume of air must go down based on Dalton's Law and Boyle's Law.
 
I never once said the humidity is making it run better. In no case is that ever possible unless you are super lean to begin with. It makes it worse. With less "air" you need to turn back the fuel to keep the same AFR. A 60% change in humidity is enough to warrant a 1/2 to 1 point change in the EJK.

[montyst]

To explain this in partial pressure terms, for any given atmospheric pressure and temperature, if the volume of water vapor goes up, the volume of air must go down based on Dalton's Law and Boyle's Law.  
I never once said the humidity is making it run better. In no case is that ever possible unless you are super lean to begin with. It makes it worse. With less "air" you need to turn back the fuel to keep the same AFR. A 60% change in humidity is enough to warrant a 1/2 to 1 point change in the EJK.

Sorry, but I just like riding bikes, I could not be ar**d, with making perpetual changes to a secondary controller, to "eek out" minute performance changes. I would get a more powerful bike and be done with it!
 
Whatever you are happy with I suppose!
 

[aeisan]

To each, his own. I like working on bikes as much as I like riding them. It's not as much for performance as much as it is I just like having smooth acceleration and throttle response; it's more about the feel than the numbers, but then again... that is performance.

[raceblue]

Are there any adjustments that can be made to stop the stalling?

[pattonme]

Now we know who the guilty party is who is failing to connect the clutch interlock switch. The low-paid intern assembling bikes at the dealer who doesn't know any better or doesn't care.
 
http://fz07.org/post/41346
 

[pattonme]

First year FZ09 owners get a free ECU flash at the dealer to fix what got excoriated in the press. Doutbtful the same will happen for the -07 since it's suspension and fueling was so "good" per the press hounds.

[rmdet]

Happened again tonight... 
Rolled off throttle, clutch in, downshifted from third to second... Engine died.
 
...

I had not been watching this thread, as I figured you all may just be the unlucky few with this glitch... I had only 3 stalls in the first 100 miles and it disappeared.  
Now, at over 600 miles, I just had 3 stalls in 2 days. Two of them were when downshifting into 2nd and going at a normal mid-speed for 2nd gear. The one that really made me unhappy was coming off the expressway exit ramp merging onto a very busy 4 lane road at an intersection.  Luckily, I was quick to clutch/restart while still rolling, so all was well, but it was unsettling nonetheless.
 
Update: 3 months and over 500 miles since the earlier post, and no other stalls have happened. 
 

 

[Guest Ralph]

Mine cut out a few times up to 600 miles than only now and then till about 2/3000 then
nothing till today at around 6000 when it cut dead changing from 3rd to 2nd for a humped
back bridge sodding thing.

[yamahappy74]

I have not once experienced this. I've stalled it several times (I'm embarrassed to say) at a light because I was two fingering the clutch and let it out faster than I gave it gas, but that's it. I guess I'm just fortunate.